All Blacks v Ireland III
My two cents from being at the game live last night.
Firstly, big congrats to Ireland. Worthy winners and completely outplayed us in all facets.
From an All Blacks perspective, two players really stood out for me and they were Ardie and Jordan.
Jason Pine summed Ardie up perfectly this morning, he’s herculean in the way he goes about his work, he just never fucking stops and was the only forward that consistently tried to get us moving last night. Everyone else, apart from one A Ioane bust and the odd Rettalick surge, were largely ineffective from where I was sitting. Is it time to give him the captaincy and move him to his best position of 7? I certainly think so. Cane looks cooked.
The other player that looked class every time he went near the ball was Will Jordan. Get him to fullback so he can get his hands on the ball more. That finish in the second half was a thing of absolute beauty, Christian Cullen mark 2.
Big black marks for me were Codie Taylor, he’s completely ineffective at this level. Whitelock tried hard but he’s really showing his age and just doesn’t have the grunt that he used to. Sam Cane was just disappointing, and being pulled really sums up his game atm, is it time to move on? Smith and Beauden looked like they had just begun their careers, absolutely no innovation from that pair last night, bloody disappointing. Is it time for Mo’unga to take the reigns? I think so.
And the irony, oh the irony of there being no one in NZ to get us over the bloody gain line. Havili definitely wasn’t the answer last night. Is it Jordie Barrett, I don’t know because he was very average aswell.
To sum things up, apart from Ardie and Jordan we were shite. Where do we go from here? F knows, but doing the same shit and expecting different results isn’t really working for us right now.
Anyway, enjoy the win Ireland. Well bloody deserved.
@Ludraman said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Ludraman said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@JC The difference was Porter was moving backwards, while Ta avao was moving forward. In any game there are a huge amount of upright tackles where the defender is going backwards and it's a bit of a lottery whether there is head contact.
I completely agree that it's the tacklers responsibility to get into a safe position. But I think if you look at it objectively, the two events were different.
If the Ta avao red card hadn't happened I don't think there would be many people saying porter deserves a red.
We can argue about the separate incidents. The fact remains that there was no consistency in the rulings. They both have to be RCs once WR sets the precedent
I think there's no consistency with most areas of the game at the moment. Each referee refs the breakdown, scrum, ruck etc differently. They've been pretty good overall with regard to head contacts I think. I do think they need to determine what to do if the tackler is unable to react in time though, which is arguably the case both weeks.
There is definitely inconsistency at the breakdown and offsides among others. I thought Ireland got away with a fair amount at the breakdown, however if they get away with it good for them. We can't wait for the ref to bail us out, it is up to us to protect our own ball at ruck and maul time. But WR have decided that high tackles and head contact needs to be strictly punished. Lots of stuff that used to be fine is now penalised or more often carded. If they want to rule this area with almost netball ref like zeal, the least we should expect is consistency
@Duluth Jeez Sam Cane sounds down. Got to feel for him being the face of Foster's rabble.
@Luigi said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Great game to watch. NZ response at the beginning of the 2nd half was classically ominous, but Ireland have played the ABs often enough recently to withstand. Tadgh Beirne was huuuuuuge.
All Black losses bring them all out of the woodwork ...
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Luigi said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Great game to watch. NZ response at the beginning of the 2nd half was classically ominous, but Ireland have played the ABs often enough recently to withstand. Tadgh Beirne was huuuuuuge.
All Black losses bring them all out of the woodwork ...
@Virgil your needed now as well.
@Steve said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Lastly. The referring inconsistencies from week to week are fucking embarrassing. Ireland had 2 red cards today by current standards. I don't think they are reds personally but if the offences were committed by black shirts there would be gifs, Alastair Campbell presentations, tweets and screams of thuggery. On the UK sky sports they didn't even show a replay of the incidents post match. The whole fucking game hinged on them, The second test hinged on them.
This.
But difficult to whinge about given the circumstances.
@MrDenmore said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Marshall was saying on that Irish podcast that the NZR can’t afford to pay out all the contracts of the coaching staff. I guess the answer to that is can they afford not to??
Is that the actual situation or pure conjecture?
@Steve said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Halfout Yeah fair enough.
I didn't think any of Angus, LF, Porter or Aki was a red but just laughed when Barnes downgraded it to a yellow. How can they do it with a straight face after the week before. Not once on any forum, in any media, tv, online or otherwise did I hear the word "absorption tackle" in the lead up to this week. But hey ho, out comes the phrase when its Porters turn for a red. Cipriani got a red for the something similar in the Heineken cup.
As an aside I thought Ofa was a penalty try the week before. I think the refs are getting big stuff wrong too often.
Edited just to add.....Barnes actually says to TMO while talking to him "there is no mitigation". So that in itself is indicative of the fact that it couldn't be downgraded from red to yellow. Yet he still did it anyway. Bizarre.
It wasn't just the card on the field. The Judiciary confirmed the decision was correct and gave AT 3 weeks.
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@MrDenmore said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Marshall was saying on that Irish podcast that the NZR can’t afford to pay out all the contracts of the coaching staff. I guess the answer to that is can they afford not to??
Is that the actual situation or pure conjecture?
If I was Silverlake watching my prize asset circling the bowl, I'd be ponying up an extraordinary cash payment to cover that cost. If that's true....
@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
My two cents from being at the game live last night.
Firstly, big congrats to Ireland. Worthy winners and completely outplayed us in all facets.
From an All Blacks perspective, two players really stood out for me and they were Ardie and Jordan.
Jason Pine summed Ardie up perfectly this morning, he’s herculean in the way he goes about his work, he just never fucking stops and was the only forward that consistently tried to get us moving last night. Everyone else, apart from one A Ioane bust and the odd Rettalick surge, were largely ineffective from where I was sitting. Is it time to give him the captaincy and move him to his best position of 7? I certainly think so. Cane looks cooked.
The other player that looked class every time he went near the ball was Will Jordan. Get him to fullback so he can get his hands on the ball more. That finish in the second half was a thing of absolute beauty, Christian Cullen mark 2.
Big black marks for me were Codie Taylor, he’s completely ineffective at this level. Whitelock tried hard but he’s really showing his age and just doesn’t have the grunt that he used to. Sam Cane was just disappointing, and being pulled really sums up his game atm, is it time to move on? Smith and Beauden looked like they had just begun their careers, absolutely no innovation from that pair last night, bloody disappointing. Is it time for Mo’unga to take the reigns? I think so.
And the irony, oh the irony of there being no one in NZ to get us over the bloody gain line. Havili definitely wasn’t the answer last night. Is it Jordie Barrett, I don’t know because he was very average aswell.
To sum things up, apart from Ardie and Jordan we were shite. Where do we go from here? F knows, but doing the same shit and expecting different results isn’t really working for us right now.
Anyway, enjoy the win Ireland. Well bloody deserved.
More questions than answers right now
@Hooroo said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@JC said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Hooroo said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
The lack of a red card in that collision was great. I don’t even like it was yellow.
Not sure I agree. Imagine for a second you’re watching that happen to your son or partner. You’d feel absolutely sick, not just about the immediate injury but potential long term effects. There’s an element of chance in this for sure but you have to make it worth players’ while to put the effort in to change their technique.
I think each was a clear yellow, but the committee reaffirmed with Ta’avao’s ban that red is the correct sanction, so these two must surely have met the same threshold as they resulted in actually injuries.
I’ve watched rugby all my life and my rugby thought process isn’t like that.
If it is foul and intentional, send them. The red last week and this collision were neither of those.
Site and sort after game for those ones. Don’t ruin the game because of a genuine accident
Yeah, I just mentioned this in one of our half a million other threads. I don't know how in both incidents they concluded it was foul play.
@Nepia said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Hooroo said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@JC said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Hooroo said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
The lack of a red card in that collision was great. I don’t even like it was yellow.
Not sure I agree. Imagine for a second you’re watching that happen to your son or partner. You’d feel absolutely sick, not just about the immediate injury but potential long term effects. There’s an element of chance in this for sure but you have to make it worth players’ while to put the effort in to change their technique.
I think each was a clear yellow, but the committee reaffirmed with Ta’avao’s ban that red is the correct sanction, so these two must surely have met the same threshold as they resulted in actually injuries.
I’ve watched rugby all my life and my rugby thought process isn’t like that.
If it is foul and intentional, send them. The red last week and this collision were neither of those.
Site and sort after game for those ones. Don’t ruin the game because of a genuine accident
Yeah, I just mentioned this in one of our half a million other threads. I don't know how in both incidents they concluded it was foul play.
It's a physical game. Accidents happen. Not every collision is the result of foul play. But apparently WR believe that it is. No its not....
@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Outstanding stuff. Great to see J&Ms chicken is still the go to on a night out on Courtney Place. Also surprisingly delicious heated up the next day.
How hammered does Peter O’Mahoney look ?
He deserves it
@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Outstanding stuff. Great to see J&Ms chicken is still the go to on a night out on Courtney Place. Also surprisingly delicious heated up the next day.
How hammered does Peter O’Mahoney look ?
He had 100 years worth of piss to drink
@pakman said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Mrs Meldrew has just removed all throwable objects from the lounge.
There’s still the TV….
Thank fuck we don't have a piano or swimming pool.
Has she put a fresh pack of razor blades in the bathroom?
I don't shave.....
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Luigi said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Great game to watch. NZ response at the beginning of the 2nd half was classically ominous, but Ireland have played the ABs often enough recently to withstand. Tadgh Beirne was huuuuuuge.
All Black losses bring them all out of the woodwork ...
Paging @Thomond78...
well that was quite something. Fucking great game. I couldn't watch live, and everything my mates had sent me, i was expecting it to be awful. But it wasn't, the ABs were pretty good, Ireland were just better.
Well done Ireland, what a performance, not just last night, but over the past few weeks. Their tour started so poorly, with those two losses, but they regrouped and just smashed us.
And you know what? I fucking love watching them play. Their short passing attack is beautiful. They get the ball in the hands of their most dangerous players as often as they can. They absolutely smash rucks. They are quick, hard and accurate in the tackle. And their set piece is fucking good.
Also, they are organised, so everyone knows not only their job, but also what everyone else is going to do so they know where to be. And they use depth to their advantage!! Fuck they don't half smash on to the ball.
Deserved series winners, good on them, fucking enjoy the shit out of it, especially the veterans.
@mariner4life Agreed, the big question is what are the Irish doing that we aren't. Clearly the coaching team are very switched on and they have 100% buy in from their players.
Wonder if anyone noticed who had the better points for and against this series? Or for all matches on this tour? ..........................................................................................................................ok, thought not. I guess it reinforces that this Irish team learned from it's mistakes and acclimatised to local conditions, after a very mediocre start
And so to the losers
What can you say? 2nd best again last night. For a team to do so much right at times, but come up with so little? Very disappointing.
The kick, kick, kick stuff is so bad. We get so little out of it, we just keep giving the ball back to Ireland at about half way.
The helter skelter, lets go both ways attack is useless. Hot take time, Aaron Smith is a big part of the problem. Those wide flat passes fired as early as possible very really hit a player to our advantage I think i saw at least 3 occassions where he hit a guy who was just turning around from getting back on side. that player was obviously immediately swallowed.
We play flat as fuck so there is no momentum on to the ball. But worst of all is, the helter skleter shit means eventually we run out of players to make a breakdown, and we turn it over.
The backline "attack" is abismal. It's nothing more inventive than "hands" sometimes with teh centre or the 12 standing in front of the intended recipient, but not in such a position that it attracts a defender. Ireland were asked no questions all night. What in the fuck is the point in backing that 13, 11, and 14 and then not giving them an opportunity? Just wasted.
Then we make it worse by sticking Ioane on the tram tracks, and never getting him the ball?! Yet when he hits it closer up he smashes them. No, i know, lets run Savea there, where he is least effective.
The defense is just terrible. Picked apart by the passing. No speed. No ability to put in dominant hits and then slow the ruck. Out wide they are all at sea. Will Jordan has no fucking idea what he is doing defensively. In? Out? Up? hold? no clue.
As or the breakdown. Fuck me dead. Accurate? no. So more numbers? also no. Maybe that's why Smith whips it out of there before thinking, because if he hesitates we'll get smoked on the counter-ruck. I lost count of missed clean out assignments today.
The whole plan is to play fast, one-off running for a few phases, and then kick, or we play that side to side shit. And hope someone breaks a tackle, or a defender makes a mistake. We won't try to create the mistake, we'll just hope it happens. And now we are giving up a heap of points as well, that will fail far more than it works.
So that is how you win every stat and yet still get pretty well beaten.
@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@mariner4life Agreed, the big question is what are the Irish doing that we aren't. Clearly the coaching team are very switched on and they have 100% buy in from their players.
structure. we are playing without a structure in a kind of "chaos ball" to break the field open, and it's not even close to working. Not least because our 6 of our forwards can't keep up.
and so to the players in black
Bower worked hard but far less prominent than last week
Taylor had a couple of bright moments early, but was gone by the 20 minute mark. Threw poorly. Missed cleanouts. Added nothing more in attack. Cooked
Laulala. It speaks volums that a player as fucking ordinary as this bloke gets to start because he can push a scrum, and the other guy cannot be trusted. We hare fucked at tighthead. Misses tackles. That dumb fucking offload. Gives away penalties. Just useless away from the scrum (where he is nothing more than competent)
Whitelock and Retallick can be grouped. Tried fucking hard all night. But this game plan fucks them completely, they are getting too long in the tooth to keep this up.
Akira was fucking great. Won rucks, won tackles, ran hard, scored a great try. Sticking him out wide is a fucking waste of a player.
Cane is done. Yes he still hits hard. Yes he cleans stuff up. But he is too slow to be a 7. We are suffering at the breakdown because Sam can't get there on either side of the ball. Nothing else he does is so good it makes up for that. He's playing like a small hooker now. It's time.
Savea is all action, all the fucking time. Almost does too much (again, sometimes slow is good too) and should hit it up close to the ruck. But holy shit what a game. Put that man in the 7 shirt
Smith was the same as every week. zipped the ball around, kicked a lot but without us ever getting it back. We are wasting his strength by making it the only option
BBarrett can fuck off. Worst AB on the field. Shit kicks. Shit options. Zero organisation. Irelands 3rd try he went for the intercept and left a gaping hole. Useless.
Havili. Did he play? Predictably offered fucking nothing
Ioane. No chance to attack with the ball because of a shit attack. Dropped passes, turned it over. The biggest symptom of our overall problem. Ireland would find a way to use him.
Reece. Wasted. Chase kicks and never get the ball.
Jordan. Good try. Pretty dangerous. Needs to learn to defend in a pattern
JBarrett. Almost as shit as his brother. Tries hard but creates fucking nothing.
Bench? Well, Mounga came on, but i don't even know who for because all the Barrets and Havili stayed. So what is the point in having him there? RTS got 10 minutes. Papalii got subbed on to his 5m line with an Irish lineout to predictable results. Coles cout counterrucked to turn it over. Ofa gor 4 minutes
It was poorly selected and even worsly used.
We weren't terrible, but if Savea and Akira don't get blood in their nostrils in the 2nd half we probably lose by 20.
The entire coaching staff should be in front of a firing squad. And several players should kiss their top 23 spot goodbye
Congrats to Ireland. Easily the better side across the tour. The one side that genuinely looked coached, they deserved to win.
That being said, by fuck the All Blacks got shafted in the refereeing.
The coaching group has to go. It's not as if we were just bested, we looked like a team with no idea. We looked like we don't have coaches.
Well just got home after being at test, geez it was a bloody good match. Irish were a class above, I thought. Was a bit worried watching warm ups before game when all 3 halfbacks were throwing evey pass from phase etc to second receiver as I had thought Irish had covered that well week before. Sure enough they picked off a couple of intercepts from them. Really thought we needed more 1 of runners etc, and almost at times Ardie seems to be carrying team by himself with go forward ball.
Was a great night anyway, bloody disappointed with result, but apart from that was fun, and forgot how enjoyable it is with opposition supporters etc. lo even if one I was talking to (he was wrapped in Irish flag) said don't tell anyone I really Scots.
I will add Irish had great game management, and had some pretty judicial injuries whenever ABs were attacking in last 20, certainly slowed down momentum quite well.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@pakman said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Mrs Meldrew has just removed all throwable objects from the lounge.
There’s still the TV….
Thank fuck we don't have a piano or swimming pool.
Has she put a fresh pack of razor blades in the bathroom?
I don't shave.....
Exactly!
@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Well just got home after being at test, geez it was a bloody good match. Irish were a class above, I thought. Was a bit worried watching warm ups before game when all 3 halfbacks were throwing evey pass from phase etc to second receiver as I had thought Irish had covered that well week before. Sure enough they picked off a couple of intercepts from them. Really thought we needed more 1 of runners etc, and almost at times Ardie seems to be carrying team by himself with go forward ball.
Was a great night anyway, bloody disappointed with result, but apart from that was fun, and forgot how enjoyable it is with opposition supporters etc. lo even if one I was talking to (he was wrapped in Irish flag) said don't tell anyone I really Scots.I will add Irish had great game management, and had some pretty judicial injuries whenever ABs were attacking in last 20, certainly slowed down momentum quite well.
Despite all the enjoyment you clearly had, do you think Foster should be replaced?
@Frank said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Well just got home after being at test, geez it was a bloody good match. Irish were a class above, I thought. Was a bit worried watching warm ups before game when all 3 halfbacks were throwing evey pass from phase etc to second receiver as I had thought Irish had covered that well week before. Sure enough they picked off a couple of intercepts from them. Really thought we needed more 1 of runners etc, and almost at times Ardie seems to be carrying team by himself with go forward ball.
Was a great night anyway, bloody disappointed with result, but apart from that was fun, and forgot how enjoyable it is with opposition supporters etc. lo even if one I was talking to (he was wrapped in Irish flag) said don't tell anyone I really Scots.I will add Irish had great game management, and had some pretty judicial injuries whenever ABs were attacking in last 20, certainly slowed down momentum quite well.
Despite all the enjoyment you clearly had, do you think Foster should be replaced?
Buggered if I know, I do know somethings have to change, as there seemed to be not a lot of commitment (they seemed flat as) or something in first half, So whatever or whoever will be the answer will I hope be decided by someone who can do something about it!
@Bovidae said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
I went to 2 games on tour and the team in black won both of them. NZR should have bought me a ticket for Wellington.
I had one of each mate, and ended up with a spare ticket last night (sister had covid) you should of bloody told me and we could of had a win!!!!Lol
@Tim whats worse (for us) is how slow they started the movement due to us turning the scrum and JGP having to pivot around the back of thier scrum to get back on track, yet we still allowed them to get well over the gainline, defence was, as always, passive AF