Bledisloe Four

At the end of the day, you have to say hats off to the Oz team for a good enough performance, but equally question why we decided to make so many changes to our team.

We essentially set up Akira, Grace, and Jordan to have poor starts in the AB jersey. We learned nothing about any of them (maybe that Akira can go ok at this level),

I’m not sure I understand the logic of swapping out so many players and having such a young and inexperienced bench, that then the coaches wouldn’t use it.

Wouldn’t it be better to just put them out there in the starting side and have some seniority on the bench if things go wrong?

Many of our problems are about selectorial strategy and our use of the bench - not all - but enough to ask the three supposedly wise men to pull in the fucking heads and come up with a better strategy for developing players.

@Gunner said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:

Edit - but we know the coaches will put JB at 14.

Not too sure after Reiko's game today. One of his best all-round games in Black.

It's amazing that the AB coaches have seen four years of an undersized, non-passing league player and decided that he should play test rugby.

How fucking dumb can you be to watch rugby and make that decision.

@Canes4life said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:

@Tim he was into everything all night. Wtf were you watching? He made about three big carries in the first half and two clean turnovers. Don’t you remember Marshall harping on about his leg drive in that first half?

Wake up.

If only the selectors had woken up when picking the team and realised that TJ is shit. Would have won with a different halfback.

@kev said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:

Reiko still gets lost on D at centre and his passing game needs work.

Based on today, his time at 13 has paid dividends with his defensive work. Outstanding today.

He could become a really good 13 but needs developing there. Start him at 11 and move him in when the bench comes on. Stick to the JG/ALB combination as 1st choice.

@akan004 said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:

@Canes4life said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:

@Tim he was into everything all night. Wtf were you watching? He made about three big carries in the first half and two clean turnovers. Don’t you remember Marshall harping on about his leg drive in that first half?

Wake up.

If only the selectors had woken up when picking the team and realised that TJ is shit. Would have won with a different halfback.

This is the concerning part for me. He has a mortgage on the backup halfback spot year after year.

I thought Savea wasn't the problem (although my pref is Sotutu at 8).
Midfield_I forgot about PUJ. I guess I am saying ALB is best option at 12 (and a good 13) but unless the game plan is very tight JG has some limitations (although he was really solid at 13 last year).
The biggest worry though is the ABs are supposed to have enough experience not to go to shit so badly. I was just getting into blah mode with Foster and now I am slipping back into ergh

@KiwiMurph said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:

@akan004 said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:

@Canes4life said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:

@Tim he was into everything all night. Wtf were you watching? He made about three big carries in the first half and two clean turnovers. Don’t you remember Marshall harping on about his leg drive in that first half?

Wake up.

If only the selectors had woken up when picking the team and realised that TJ is shit. Would have won with a different halfback.

This is the concerning part for me. He has a mortgage on the backup halfback spot year after year.

Yeah, I just don't understand the loyalty shown towards him. If he can't get his core role right, he shouldn't be picked.

Even more baffling when you consider the age profile of the halfbacks selected. Need to start developing some young halfbacks for the next RWC.

@Tim he looked pretty darn good running over and through your precious Blues earlier in the season.

That is more what I expect from a Foster coached team
Headless chook stuff.
Long couple of years coming up.

@No-Quarter some good thoughts on this post. Have to agree with Teej, he’s fallen off a cliff in these last two tests which is a shame, but then again we have very slim pickings coming through to challenge for that second 9 spot.

I’d really like to see PUJ get a run at 13. He’s got the ability to make a Caleb Clarke like statement, just needs that opportunity.

Hopefully Smith and Coles return next weekend. I guess we will be forced to roll out our best XV.

A few random thoughts :

This is the third shit game from the ABs in 13 months (vs England, 1st and 4th Bled).
No depth at all at tighthead prop since Lomax and Laulala seemed to struggle (4th Bled for Lomax, 2nd Bled for Laulala).
Akira was on fire till he was pulled out. I'd like to see a starting combo of Ioane - Cane - Sotutu with Savea on the bench. This could be devastating.
SB was good till his brainfart. His YC card certainly cost NZ the game.
Vaa'i was good when he came in. Far better than his SRA outings were suggesting.
Weber added pace to the backline when he came in. He should be given more gametime against the Argies.

First, congratulations to the Wobs, well done. Some Wob love first. Slipper is a friggen warrior and the Wobs are a lesser team without him. Hopefully, he is OK. Tupou will get better and better, Swinton looks like a flashback of the usual Wob hardarse flanker, a keeper.
Next, a winge, Wouldn't be an AB loss without a winge. The TV and ground coverage team, well done, you should be given the MOTM award. Hopefully, this sparks a debate about the influence of "hometown coverage reffing".
Next All Blacks, how friggen awful were they. TJP and Reece were seriously bad. We found out that BB is not our best 1st five and JB is not our best fullback (you can work that out). I know the board would go after SB but apart from one brain fart was one of our better forwards. Savea is a great player but NOT a great No. 8. Love the story but Karl. T is not an international prop. I fear Hodgeman's scrumming against the northern teams.
The good: Akira looked the goods when on. Sam Cane, ALB, and SW are workhorses to the extreme. Once Weber came on, the ABs looked so much better!

Will be drop to no 3 on the rankings now?

@hydro11 said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:

Well taken try, nothing we could have done about that one.

@nzzp said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:

@hydro11 said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:

Well taken try, nothing we could have done about that one.

except exit our 22.

and make tackles.

And not given away the penalty with the resultant field position and possession on attack.

@Crucial said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:

That’ll be Akiras night finished

Yeah, that's shit. Could he not be used for a sub again later? He wasn't sent off.

@No-Quarter said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:

Great to see the Wallabies continue their long standing tradition of winning the games that don't really matter.

“Aussie rugby is back”

?

@Chris said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:

That is more what I expect from a Foster coached team
Headless chook stuff.
Long couple of years coming up.

Tbh, we weren't much different under Shag over his last 2-3 years.

With the compressed schedule I guess we were always going to see some of our key players rested.

I don’t expect big scores and near perfect rugby (anymore), but there are things that are critical to AB success and regardless of how up and down we perform, the moments before halftime is when we tend to make the opposition pay. And tonight it was very disappointing when we are camped down their end and we fail to put score board pressure on. TJP’s influence in those passages was greater than preferred and we just didn’t capitalise.

Aussies would’ve been buoyed by that given how many times we have scored on them in the 30-40 minute stage of many test matches.

@akan004 do you mean under Shag AND Foster?

I would like to compliment Australia-ok they weren't as consistently flat as us.
This is really good for Australian rugby actually, dead rubber or not.

@ACT-Crusader said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:

With the compressed schedule I guess we were always going to see some of our key players rested.

I don’t expect big scores and near perfect rugby (anymore), but there are things that are critical to AB success and regardless of how up and down we perform, the moments before halftime is when we tend to make the opposition pay. And tonight it was very disappointing when we are camped down their end and we fail to put score board pressure on. TJP’s influence in those passages was greater than preferred and we just didn’t capitalise.

Aussies would’ve been buoyed by that given how many times we have scored on them in the 30-40 minute stage of many test matches.

All they had to do was to continue with the pick and drive when they were inches away from the tryline and TJ decides to pass it out to the backs without a clear overlap. Dumb play.

@ACT-Crusader said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:

With the compressed schedule I guess we were always going to see some of our key players rested.

I don’t expect big scores and near perfect rugby (anymore), but there are things that are critical to AB success and regardless of how up and down we perform, the moments before halftime is when we tend to make the opposition pay. And tonight it was very disappointing when we are camped down their end and we fail to put score board pressure on. TJP’s influence in those passages was greater than preferred and we just didn’t capitalise.

Aussies would’ve been buoyed by that given how many times we have scored on them in the 30-40 minute stage of many test matches.

He really was the captain of the headless chook stuff. Super frustrating and feel sorry for BB at 1st five......

Goes to show you that Test rugby demands full respect for the opposition, all those fringe players in contributed to our failure to reach the required intensity level and accuracy of execution needed to win

Fair to say that those who have been crying and moaning for BB at 10 and JB at 15, I think that argument has been put to rest. Still don’t get what Karl T. Is doing at this level.

@DMX said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:

Fair to say that those who have been crying and moaning for BB at 10 and JB at 15, I think that argument has been put to rest. Still don’t get what Karl T. Is doing at this level.

He's average but who else do we currently have?

@Tim said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:

Perenara has been a big turd off the bench since the Lions tests. Garbage idiot focussed on yelling at the ref.

I think this sums up quite succinctly my last 4 years worth of posts on this subject

@No-Quarter said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:

TJP's form has gone the same way Cowan's did, right off a fucking cliff and he's become a liability. He's always been inconsistent, showing glimpses of being world class, but has never able to put back to back performances together. It just seems to be consistently bad now. Weber is a fucking liability as well though so we definitely have a gap to fill there.

Weber is probably not the long term answer and has his obvious limitations. But, I do feel comfortable that, if entrusted with the role, he could be trusted to come and perform the role - i.e., clear the ball quickly, keep or even increase the pace of the game and not completely lose his head. He might even be able to kick better. Unfortunately, that's the very low bar our backup halfback now has to clear. Out of the options available, he's probably best placed to perform that role.

@akan004 said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:

@Chris said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:

That is more what I expect from a Foster coached team
Headless chook stuff.
Long couple of years coming up.

Tbh, we weren't much different under Shag over his last 2-3 years.

Is this because Fozzie was actually in charge the whole time? Is this what they mean by "continuity"...?

Here is a post of mine from last year's RWC after the Canada match - it remains as true today as ever

@junior said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool :

@canefan said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool :

@junior said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool :

@Chris said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool :

@MajorRage said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool :

@Chris said in RWC: All Blacks v Canada (Pool :

Has anyone forced their way into the top 23 if SA Selection for game one is the top 23 ?

Weber perhaps?

Game changed when he came on great pass and runs great support lines would not have thought that was a chance to take TJs spot before the WC but Webber was very good.

I agree. I can't see how anyone thought he was anything other than excellent when he came on (at least compared to TJP). He kept it simple, did his job, got the ball out quickly, backed-up well and, importantly, didn't try to do too much himself. Based on that performance, I'd feel much more confident having him to come on and guide us home in the last 10 mins of a RWC knockout match.

Really?!?! You would have Webber supplant TJP, who at times has challenged A Smith hard for the starting job this year, based on 35 minutes against Canada? You set your bar much lower than me

I actually set it quite high for halfbacks, but my metrics might be different to others. TJP is a great rugby player with a good "rugby brain", hence why he scores so many tries by running really good support lines. My problem is that's not what he should be doing - he's a halfback not an openside flanker. His pass is shit, his kicking is shit, he's selfish and greedy, his option-taking is often poor, he plays for himself more than the team and - crucially - he's not calm or smart enough to be entrusted with such a key role (at which he's not particularly proficient technically), particularly in such a crucial match. I'd much rather have Weber there in such moments, because at least you know he'll pass fast and accurately to the guys who should be taking control (e.g. Mo'unga and Barrett) rather than trying to be a hero and do it all himself.

So we were looking good, red card changed things then we went from possession football to a defensive game because of the numbers. Once it was evened up why did we resume what appeared to be our plan and was working? With Akira and Ofa off we lost some bulk. Foster should have at least made early subs to get us back on track, fresh legs and by subbing Savea for Akira earlier. Savea and Cane played full games. That is stupid. Vaai could have come on earlier. From what I have watch of him he has not disappointed or appeared out of his depth. We don’t have to sub in the 70th minute all the time.

Well, that's that. Probably a reflection of the two sides right now - Aus slightly better at home playing a R+R AB outfit that gets disjointed and in a broken game.

Ioane Brothers looked a class above. well done mum and dad Ioane,

Red cards ... well I'm shaking my head. Will watch both again today, but they are game wrecking decisions that seem to be dished out randomly.

TJP - since Lions 3 where he flapped around at the base of the game winning scrum and let Lions steal the ball because he was seagulling, his form has been on the slide. He i sa truely remarkable rugby player, but not playing well as a halfback at the moment. Like Laumape, shining at Super but not really transitioning to Tests.

Winner: Aussie Rugby
Losers: ABs, and rugby watchers (with cards up the wazoo).

The Barrett Boys seem to be having consistent brain explosions that cost us test matches. Scott should get himself banned from Aus, and feel better about things as a result. Two trips in Black, two losses due to cards. FFS.

Overall, the lack of mental strength is a concern for me. We keep making poor decisions - it feels like 07 could creep up again (although we aren't as dominant as that side)

@NTA said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:

Ah nice - they just showed some footage of Cane presenting Slipper with a bottle of plonk for his 100th.

Think that's something the GOAT started. Great to see Cane carrying on the tradition.

@akan004 said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:

Will be drop to no 3 on the rankings now?

Not quite, were still 2, Oz still 6

One thought. Wobs beat us by two inches, being how far right Jordie's first conversion needed to be to sneak inside left hand upright.

@No-Quarter said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:

A few random thoughts:

• it's pretty clear we don't have the depth to rest any of our top players, particularly A Smith and Coles. Fair enough that we did but shit some of the next tier down got exposed.
• TJP's form has gone the same way Cowan's did, right off a fucking cliff and he's become a liability. He's always been inconsistent, showing glimpses of being world class, but has never able to put back to back performances together. It just seems to be consistently bad now. Weber is a fucking liability as well though so we definitely have a gap to fill there.
• we also really need Clarke to fill a gap on the wing, and Sotutu to fill a gap at 8. Both rookies but both specialists and have oodles of class.
• Ardie was really good, but it's so blindingly obvious he isn't an 8 and he's best used from the bench wrecking havoc at the end of the match.
• midfield didn't work and I didn't really think it would. JG, ALB and Rieko are our first choice covering 12 and 13 IMO. Rieko probably still off the bench until he really finds his feet at centre at test level.
• Akira was fucking awesome, we actually lost a lot of shape when he went off. His work rate was high and he was super effective in contact. Wobs must have been extremely pleased to see the back of him after the red.
• both reds were pretty silly. Sure you can tell players to just go low, but then you basically take the dominant tackle out of the game. At the end of the day rugby is a contact sport and you're going to get some accidental contact to the head every now and then. Red carding players for that is completely over the top and ruins the spectacle.
• fucking SB and that dumb as fuck YC. I was calling for a red as it was that fucking idiotic. That's the kind of play that makes you think he can't be trusted in a big test.
• BB was not good, but I'm really not sure how RM would have gone given the pile of shit that was served up. Jury still out but RM/BB 10/15 combo has had the most success so far.

Agree with all of this and will add...

• Nick Berry made it the referee show very early on - along with some selective decisions at times.

• The AB-collectively played dumb. Headless chooks, passes going to ground, combo's/timing not quite there.

• Beaudy will get a clip in the media, but I don't think having RM would've made a difference. BB did some good things, Jordie was still available to be a second playmaker & kicker. BB tackled hard, made metres post contact, tried hard.

• I would've subbed off Sevu Reece instead of Akira in hindsight - the game became attritional in the end - Akira would've offered more plus had we know Australia would lose their 6, it would've made that forward battle interesting.

• I also blame Australia for being Australia. Never give those fluffy bunnies a chance.

@No-Quarter said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:

Great to see the Wallabies continue their long standing tradition of winning the games that don't really matter.

Although it is funny , it is accurate

@canefan said in Bledisloe Four: Brisbane, 7 November:

Goes to show you that Test rugby demands full respect for the opposition, all those fringe players in contributed to our failure to reach the required intensity level and accuracy of execution needed to win

100%.