Fostered Out
What will it take for the New Zealand rugby board to cancel Foster’s contract and pay him out? Forget the World Cup. There is no way they’re going to win that anyway.
But if the Bledisloe Cup goes across the Tasman this year, after a near 20-year run, the clamour for change will be hard to ignore. And losing the Bledisloe looks completely on the cards right now, wouldn’t you say?
Ask yourself: What influence has Foster brought to the All Blacks under his charge, other than a propensity for losing every second game? What stamp has he made on one of the world’s top sporting brands other than completely tarnishing it? As others have said, there appears to be no structure, no logical game plan, no ability to deal with rush defence - just a reliance on luck and individual pieces of brilliance.
Of course, Foster would say in his defence that the All Blacks have to deal with a disrupted schedule due to the ongoing pandemic, but then so has everybody else. He might also say that NZ rugby, due to the drift of talent overseas, does not have the depth it once did. But the Kiwis in the Irish team, dismissed locally as journeymen, were passed over before they drifted offshore for better opportunities. That they are shining in a different environment must say something about the paucity of ideas at home and the attraction of a better set-up elsewhere.
Putting aside individuals, one might also say that all this is an inevitable result of globalisation of talent and the arrival of a tipping point in the ongoing export to the north of NZ rugby intellectual and playing capital. But then that overlooks the fact that some world class coaching talent remains on local shores, including a six times winning Super rugby coach and the recently returned Kiwi who masterminded Ireland’s renaissance.
Perhaps Foster’s strongest defence is the fact that margins in international rugby have tightened. The North no longer lags the south by default, as can be seen in the clean sweep by Ireland, England, Wales and Scotland in their return serves against NZ, Australia, South Africa and Argentina this weekend. The days of the RC sides being automatically fitter, stronger, faster and more resilient and resourceful are over.
But then that is an even stronger argument for a world-class coaching set-up at home featuring coaches who are innovative, forward-thinking, globally attuned and able to get the very best out of the playing resources we have. We can’t control pandemics, the strength of the opposition, the vagaries of the rule book, the variability of referees, the globalisation of the game - we CAN ensure we have a coaching and management structure that provides a hothouse for talent and ideas and preserves and enhances the All Black brand.
Again, I come back to my first question: What will it take for the NZ rugby authorities to grasp that all of that is now at risk?
@Bones said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Be good to start well.
Be good to finish well.
Reckon starting well woulda helped us more...sliding doors and all, no YC, RC, YC....at least how they panned out last night...
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Before the fucking Hurricanes fans pile in and go at me because their only 2 all Blacks suck
Irelands first try. Savea is the 2nd tackler. A good loose forward immediately challenges that ball on the ground. No, Ardie reels away for some fucking reason. A quick recycle and we're doomed (shit tackle attempt by WT toi)
He's just not that guy for the tough stuff. He's a cat.
If a team wants easy meters around the fringes, they run at Ardie. He rides them to the ground allowing the momentum to continue with remarkably little resistance.
As my mate, who watched it said "Wasn't that we were not up for it once letting them in for first try. Was more a case of: as individual genius can win us games, individual fuck ups can lose us games. Freakishly so. It's like they are all individuals, not a team. Almost like there is no plan or structure to fall back on when individual genius turns to individual fuckwits. That's totally a coaching issue"
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Dan54 nah, it's different in recent years, I barely care any more, I still care when Northland loses, but I find myself not caring about AB losses in recent years...it more about frustration through lack of learning (I can assure you Northland make all of the errors that the national.side do, and more at coaching, selection and play)
I don't know what it is, part maturity maybe....
Yep I believe in is maturity etc, my awakening came after SA beat us in 95 WC final, I woke up next day and realised the sun still came up etc. Mind you I a Canes man too so may help, lol. Don't get me wrong I still am one eyed ABs man etc, just not end of world when we lose, and find I enjoy game a bloody sight more because of it.
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@gt12 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Can anyone define how the ABs play?
Yes. A static pod doing their level best to negate any benefit of Aaron's pass. And even then they manage to fuck cleaning out and securing the ball quickly.
I think Ireland worked out how to counter Smiths fast flat passes nicely last night and even if he has the best passes of any halfback going around they can often be ineffective with the receiver often isolated
Also Beaudy needs to improve on his touch finders from penalties - we had some great momentum from driving mauls and think we had one kick for touch that should have put us on the 5m line but instead found touch just inside the 22
@Nevorian said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@gt12 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Can anyone define how the ABs play?
Yes. A static pod doing their level best to negate any benefit of Aaron's pass. And even then they manage to fuck cleaning out and securing the ball quickly.
I think Ireland worked out how to counter Smiths fast flat passes nicely last night and even if he has the best passes of any halfback going around they can often be ineffective with the receiver often isolated
Also Beaudy needs to improve on his touch finders from penalties - we had some great momentum from driving mauls and think we had one kick for touch that should have put us on the 5m line but instead found touch just inside the 22
Yes, if there's a compelling reason to reemploy Mick Byrne for a while, Beaudy's kicking is it.
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Nevorian said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@gt12 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Can anyone define how the ABs play?
Yes. A static pod doing their level best to negate any benefit of Aaron's pass. And even then they manage to fuck cleaning out and securing the ball quickly.
I think Ireland worked out how to counter Smiths fast flat passes nicely last night and even if he has the best passes of any halfback going around they can often be ineffective with the receiver often isolated
Also Beaudy needs to improve on his touch finders from penalties - we had some great momentum from driving mauls and think we had one kick for touch that should have put us on the 5m line but instead found touch just inside the 22
Yes, if there's a compelling reason to reemploy Mick Byrne for a while, Beaudy's kicking is it.
I think that bridge is burned, from memory they essentially told him that he wasn’t good enough to be a full assistant coach.
@Nevorian almost like we are one trick ponies...easy to defend when you know whats coming.
At least the Maori will soften them up this week
@gt12 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I’m going to come back at my point on Cane by pointing out that he led the team for tackles (13,1) and that Paps was the least busy with (5,0), so maybe it is early to put it on Cane.
The guys up front might be a bit different, even Scooters stats aren’t that good.
Ofa’s are a fucking nightmare - 5 penalties and a YC, 2 missed tackles and all of 6 metres.
Cane missed 1 tackle ? I just rewatched the game he missed heaps of tackles, those stats are not to be trusted.
@booboo said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
The Ta'avao card, as I said at half time, was the worst application of the head impact laws I have seen.
They actually put up the steps they go through up on the feed and I looked at Foul Play and thought oh well it will be a yellow at worst because no one on the planet thinks that's actually foul play. How wrong was I? Jaco obviously saw it as a flying headbutt.
@booboo said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Will now subject myself to the thread ...
I said at half time I was looking forward to reading the thread, as my mates and I watching the game found the first half so surreal. But I had a look at the end of the match and I straight up couldn't handle the amount of negativity, and I was one of the key drivers of the Hammettuer thread.
I'm not as disappointed by this loss as others, it has a Cardiff 2007 feel to it for me with the first half surreal-ness and the hammering we took from Jaco's whistle (I'll need a rewatch to see if all were deserved etc) so that seems to have lightened the anger for me.
Maybe I'll get shittier as the week goes on? Maybe I'm just mature enough to handle losses (nope that didn't sound right even as I typed it).
@Chris said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@gt12 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I’m going to come back at my point on Cane by pointing out that he led the team for tackles (13,1) and that Paps was the least busy with (5,0), so maybe it is early to put it on Cane.
The guys up front might be a bit different, even Scooters stats aren’t that good.
Ofa’s are a fucking nightmare - 5 penalties and a YC, 2 missed tackles and all of 6 metres.
Cane missed 1 tackle ? I just rewatched the game he missed heaps of tackles, those stats are not to be trusted.
Yeah, I remembered at least a couple, so I was a bit surprised. They've been updated to 14,1 now btw :idk:
@booboo these guys don't suddenly start being unco and unable to catch.
It's all linked to preparation, confidence, trust in those around you, knowing the systems...nothing was in sync last night.
As an aside, Ta'avao getting a RC gets a judiciary visit, if he gets a ban from that contact, rugby is even more fuckeded...
Hi Folks,
Im new to these pastures.
Here is my two cents for what its worth.
Peyper got all 3 big calls wrong for me.
-
Ofa should have been a yellow and penalty try.
-
Leicesters was fine for me. Rugby incident. Tiddlywinks etc. To suggest there was intent is disingenuous
-
The head clash red is an absolutely farcical call. People paying 150 odd dollars to watch a game see it reduced to that nonsense and then Ardie Savea is collateral damage in the ensuing mess. They are ruining the sport with this garbage. SBW on Anthony Watson is a red.....this isn't.
LF looks a bit slow. I think Clarke can do everything LF can do but has more gas. Rieko isn't a centres arsehole but has improved to be fair. 3 years on from RWC 2019 we still don't know the starting front row, back row, or centres. You could make a case for only Whitelock, Jordan and Aaron Smith being nailed on. Although in Jordans case he should be the fullback.
The team is in fucking rag order. The culture looks shite too. From all the social media its all basketball jerseys, slang and shite haircuts. They all need a boot up the fucking hole.
Grace and Blackadder will become mainstays in the not too distant future. Vaii needs a chance to start instead of one of the veterans.
Id have had Romano as the stop gap over Tuipolutu today . PT is a joke of a player....powder puff.
ST should be starting hooker. Makes Mealamu esque hard yards with footwork before contact.
Mo'unga got absolutely rag dolled out there a few times today. He looked like a boy against men.
Laumape would be useful to have around the last few years.
My silk purse out of a sows ear backline......
- Smith
- Barrett
- Clarke
- Jordie
- Rieko
- Reece
- Jordan
The Irish are a very functional team but pretty blunt. More perspiration than inspiration. They know their jobs and do them well to be fair.
Not sure about their attacking lines though...lazy runners and shepherding/obstruction all over the place. Sexton is passing the ball to players behind a wall of green shirts.
As an aside they (the Irish) are turning into a pretty classless bunch. Sexton wants a conference with the ref on every call. Even going back to the previous encounters such as the Autumn game where Coles was heard saying "jeez he's a mouthy fluffybunny" about Sexton on the ref mic.
O'Mahony hit a player late after Aki's try last week. Today he started a schmozzle and was the one doing all the mouthing. Sexton gave Cane a spray last week after Ringrose gave him a rib tickler and today after Porters try Sexton was down shouting haaaaaaaaaa in Aaron Smiths face. There is also a lot of South Africa-esque rest taking place between play. Feigning injury etc. O'Mahony main culprit. Todays game took over 2 hours.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I'm still so angry how hugely our forward pack got rolled tonight.
Even before the cards that some will use as excuses for their favourites
A Savea was shown for his complete lack of physicality
DP was completely invisible.
Scott Barrett missed two assignments that led to points
The front row who weren't Bower sucked (Bower was really good and I'm becoming a huge fan)
Yes Ofa fucked everything but it was shit. The lineout was predictable. The scrum was scratchy
PGS is not good enough to be a test player and it's a disgrace he gets a jersey.
We need new leadership
Lol this is hilarious, our whole pack showed no physicality last night yet you continue to blame it all on Savea. How about our so called physical players actually stand up for once. Savea did his job last week but I’ve yet to see any other forward bar up, apart from Sam Whitelock andGeorge Bower.
Last nights loss needs to fall on the shoulders of Sam Cane as captain. He needs to show more as a leader because a couple hard tackles just doesn’t cut it. He is such a handbrake when we have ball in hand aswell, I’ve lost count of how many times he’s dropped the ball over the last couple weeks, he’s hopeless. Then there’s the likes of Codie Taylor, Ofa, Scott Barrett and Dalton who didn’t do anything last night. In fact when Ardie went off we literally had no one to get us over the advantage line in that pack.
The fact you didn’t even mention Lester in your match day rundown is a bit of a joke because that was probably the worst performance by any player in Black for about twenty years. He was horrible.
But yeah, let’s just blame it all on Ardie Savea.
Muppet.
For the first try, poor defence from: Tu'ungufasi, Cane, and Tupaea. Our whole line speed and structure on defence poor. Retallick got smashed out of a ruck like a haven't seen from him. (Looked like Irish 5 came around the ruck to do it ...) Weak tackle effort from S Barrett too. Even when we were giving away penalties (twice in 22) we couldn't slow their ball down. Two loose forwards (Papalii and Cane) stuck in that last ruck, and we didn't slow it at all! Way too easy.
@Tim said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
For the first try, poor defence from: Tu'ungufasi, Cane, and Tupaea. Our whole line speed and structure on defence poor. Retallick got smashed out of a ruck like a haven't seen from him. (Looked like Irish 5 came around the ruck to do it ...) Weak tackle effort from S Barrett too.
Add some diagrams to that bro - that should be a card for the filthy in the side Irishman. 
@Nepia Retallick throwing his arms up like he was in mortal peril was embarrassing!
@Steve said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Not sure about their attacking lines though...lazy runners and shepherding/obstruction all over the place. Sexton is passing the ball to players behind a wall of green shirts.
Yep, think back to 2002 I think on our NH tour, was all about our illegal dummy runners, right now Ireland are doing something similar.
Thing is, doing it just far enough ahead of the ball carriers it won't get called.
Similarly us getting pinged for taking the man beyond the ruck...shit, its about time we started this cos other teams been doing it and getting away with it.
We don't have anyone with McCaws smarts to read the ref, adjust and lead the play for it, instead our play reminds me of the episode of the Simpsons where Lisa proves a Hamster is smarter than Bart with electricity.
Gotta say last night, Canes leadership was shit...we had points on offer, down players, down points so we go for the corner.
What is the mechanism for sacking an All Black coach, anyway? Asking for a friend.
I presume the provinces could still hold a special general meeting and demand the Board sack him? You'd kind of think that some of the sentiments expressed on here would be moving in those circles. Last night was a bit of a shit show and there's been a few of those, now.
However, keep some powder dry, gentlemen (and ladies). I think there's a few more furlongs to run before the unwanted Foster-child is returned from whence he came.
Great post @MrDenmore
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Steve said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Not sure about their attacking lines though...lazy runners and shepherding/obstruction all over the place. Sexton is passing the ball to players behind a wall of green shirts.
Yep, think back to 2002 I think on our NH tour, was all about our illegal dummy runners, right now Ireland are doing something similar.
Thing is, doing it just far enough ahead of the ball carriers it won't get called.
Similarly us getting pinged for taking the man beyond the ruck...shit, its about time we started this cos other teams been doing it and getting away with it.
We don't have anyone with McCaws smarts to read the ref, adjust and lead then play for it, instead our play reminds me of the episode of the Simpsons where Lisa proves a Gerbil is smarter than Bart with electricity
There was one break where Ioane caught the attacker eventually but the Irish had two players in front of the ball which clearly impeded the inside defenders. I just assumed it would get called back but it was play on.
Also, we may as well start throwing the ball straight to our jumpers too.
Cane and Papalii (played out of position, and no surprise that was a failure) would probably be more prominent if they didn't have to hit as many rucks. We seem to commit a lot of players, yet get slow ball.
Problem with Retallick now is that for every good play he makes, he gets dominated physically in the next.
Bower's recycling from his carries was better. A quick recycle is better than a slow half metre post contact.
@Tim I wasnt so concerned with that loose trio initially, problem was it became a duo, and when you have Retallick and Taylor shadows of thier former selves, Ofa on one of his off nights (seems to have them every other game...) and we had half a forward pack trying to get through the work....
The fact we didnt lose by 40 is a testament to something with all the field position and ball Ireland had...not sure what it is testament too yet though haha
One thing that was somewhat innovative, was all those attacking penalties close to the line that we were tapping rather than setting a scrum for.
Not sure whether that was symptomatic that we knew our 7 man scrum was a busted flush, but I don't recall many NZ teams taking that route even when they've got a man in the bin. They'll still set a scrum with 7 men or stick a back on the side.
@Nepia said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
The Ta'avao card, as I said at half time, was the worst application of the head impact laws I have seen.
They actually put up the steps they go through up on the feed and I looked at Foul Play and thought oh well it will be a yellow at worst because no one on the planet thinks that's actually foul play. How wrong was I? Jaco obviously saw it as a flying headbutt.
@booboo said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Will now subject myself to the thread ...
I said at half time I was looking forward to reading the thread, as my mates and I watching the game found the first half so surreal. But I had a look at the end of the match and I straight up couldn't handle the amount of negativity, and I was one of the key drivers of the Hammettuer thread.
I'm not as disappointed by this loss as others, it has a Cardiff 2007 feel to it for me with the first half surreal-ness and the hammering we took from Jaco's whistle (I'll need a rewatch to see if all were deserved etc) so that seems to have lightened the anger for me.
Maybe I'll get shittier as the week goes on? Maybe I'm just mature enough to handle losses (nope that didn't sound right even as I typed it).
A lot of that negativity existed before the game. So the slightest scratch and it gushes like an artery that’s had a surgical blade through it.
No AB fan likes losing but certain we will be better next week. Whitelock, Jordan, Goodhue in and some young ones sitting the 3rd test out. Like to see Mo’unga at 1st and BB at fullback - less mistakes, take your penalties…test match rugby where you respect your opponent.
@Chris-B copying the Irish from last week?
@Tim yeah IIRC he wasnt really looking at being a tackler and then the attacking angle changed and he was in the space the attacker was going, and bam...will be interesting to see what the judiciary make of it, if they ban him or turn the RC over.
Did they mention if he passed his HIA?
@Tim said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
From the wide shot it looked like Ta'avao was running across on cover, never expected the ball to come back towards him.
Agree - he accelerated as he realised the ball had been passed, but didn’t judge that the player was coming at him. Total collision. To mitigate that you need to be stationary and bent over. Almost impossible if the deception happens on the advantage line unless defence is completely passive. This was a wrong decision. Rules or interpretation needs to be changed. This is where league gets it right - they turn around interpretation issues really quickly. We have the IRB.
Much like who whomever came up with the rule around a drop kick to the defending team when you are held up over the line. Wtf? Why?
@Nepia said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
They actually put up the steps they go through up on the feed and I looked at Foul Play and thought oh well it will be a yellow at worst because no one on the planet thinks that's actually foul play. How wrong was I? Jaco obviously saw it as a flying headbutt
Players have just got to be more careful. I saw it and first thought was a definite red card.
@kev said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Nepia said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
The Ta'avao card, as I said at half time, was the worst application of the head impact laws I have seen.
They actually put up the steps they go through up on the feed and I looked at Foul Play and thought oh well it will be a yellow at worst because no one on the planet thinks that's actually foul play. How wrong was I? Jaco obviously saw it as a flying headbutt.
@booboo said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Will now subject myself to the thread ...
I said at half time I was looking forward to reading the thread, as my mates and I watching the game found the first half so surreal. But I had a look at the end of the match and I straight up couldn't handle the amount of negativity, and I was one of the key drivers of the Hammettuer thread.
I'm not as disappointed by this loss as others, it has a Cardiff 2007 feel to it for me with the first half surreal-ness and the hammering we took from Jaco's whistle (I'll need a rewatch to see if all were deserved etc) so that seems to have lightened the anger for me.
Maybe I'll get shittier as the week goes on? Maybe I'm just mature enough to handle losses (nope that didn't sound right even as I typed it).
A lot of that negativity existed before the game. So the slightest scratch and it gushes like an artery that’s had a surgical blade through it.
No AB fan likes losing but certain we will be better next week. Whitelock, Jordan, Goodhue in and some young ones sitting the 3rd test out. Like to see Mo’unga at 1st and BB at fullback - less mistakes, take your penalties…test match rugby where you respect your opponent.
I'd change the starting hooker, as well - whether it's Sami T. promoted or Coles coming in. Taylor simply hasn't shown great form for 12 months.
Not sure what we'll do at tighthead if Nepo's neck isn't right. Ofa was terrible, last night, Angus has to beat both a red card hearing and concussion protocols, and seemingly the next cab off the rank will be Tyrel Lomax.
Don't mind losing to a better team if we show up and actually play. This is different. The team has no direction, it is an unstructured mess with some very talented players keeping it from a complete shitshow. Our expectations as fans have been so lowered that we are already putting this to the side and talking about the "better performance" next week.
Holy Shittings! I am completely "Fostered out" (as someone said before). It has been said hundreds of times on here but I'll say it again. Players out of position, stubborn refusal to drop certain "favourites", lack of understandable game plan...... Didn't we see this in a certain Chiefs side?
@kev said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Like to see Mo’unga at 1st and BB at fullback - less mistakes, take your penalties…test match rugby where you respect your opponent.
@Canes4life said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I'm still so angry how hugely our forward pack got rolled tonight.
Even before the cards that some will use as excuses for their favourites
A Savea was shown for his complete lack of physicality
DP was completely invisible.
Scott Barrett missed two assignments that led to points
The front row who weren't Bower sucked (Bower was really good and I'm becoming a huge fan)
Yes Ofa fucked everything but it was shit. The lineout was predictable. The scrum was scratchy
PGS is not good enough to be a test player and it's a disgrace he gets a jersey.
We need new leadership
Lol this is hilarious, our whole pack showed no physicality last night yet you continue to blame it all on Savea. How about our so called physical players actually stand up for once. Savea did his job last week but I’ve yet to see any other forward bar up, apart from Sam Whitelock andGeorge Bower.
Last nights loss needs to fall on the shoulders of Sam Cane as captain. He needs to show more as a leader because a couple hard tackles just doesn’t cut it. He is such a handbrake when we have ball in hand aswell, I’ve lost count of how many times he’s dropped the ball over the last couple weeks, he’s hopeless. Then there’s the likes of Codie Taylor, Ofa, Scott Barrett and Dalton who didn’t do anything last night. In fact when Ardie went off we literally had no one to get us over the advantage line in that pack.
The fact you didn’t even mention Lester in your match day rundown is a bit of a joke because that was probably the worst performance by any player in Black for about twenty years. He was horrible.
But yeah, let’s just blame it all on Ardie Savea.
Muppet.
Lol fuck what a dipshit post
A post naming a bunch of players for being shit you choose one line and concoct a reply as if it's the whole post
Deluded
Congrats to Ireland. Dominated.
As others have said the ABs are a total mess all the way around.
We have a forward pack that is as soft as butter with the exception of Bower, Whitelock and sometimes Scott Barrett.
We don't have a proper 10 in either Beauden or Richie that drives the team around field.
We don't have an effective attacking pattern we can go to. We continue with this pod rubbish and biffing it out to a forward 10 metres from the breakdown.
Our defence coach and defence system is in it's 6th season and keeps showing the same failings. 6th season with this defence coach and system is nuts - how to have that sort of job security.
Our coach/selectors refuses to actually drop any senior players from the starting side regardless of performance or to fit a discernible pattern of play.
The culture of the team appears to be completely fucked. Codie Taylor was quoted as saying how 'Ardie is the best player in the world' in relation to the substitute error - they believe their own bullshit - it's this echo-chamber and no one is willing to ask the hard questions. They shrug every loss off as a compliment to the opposition and good for world rugby and then forget about it until it happens again a couple of tests later.
It's no wonder in test rugby we get exposed every other test.