Black Caps v South Africa I
A few jumbled thoughts on the game
Henry set the game up with his 7-for, and Nicholls finished them off with his ton. After that it was really just a matter of what the winning margin would be, and by fuck were we ruthless. That's one of the most clinical performances we've put together which is saying a lot given we are the WTC champions and we were missing 4 world class players that were at the heart of that WTC win. It also makes the first test against the Bangles even harder to get your head around, it was such an aberration, but test cricket can be a fluffybunny of a game sometimes.
Henry's performance was really world class. Didn't try to do too much, just got into a good rythm and hit the right line and length on a consistent basis. He was unplayable. If it wasn't for Southee and Boult he would have played a lot more games, and based on his first class numbers he'd have a good record too. The 58* was fun, showed he can hold a bat but SA were demoralised at that point.
I genuinely thought we'd get rolled pretty cheap given the conditions and the SA lineup. I actually would have been content with 200 but boy did Nicholls stand up. Yeah he's a bit of a home track bully but those were not easy circumstances to come out in. He's a funny old player, obviously doesn't have the talent of some of our other blokes but he's mentally so strong, nothing seems to faze him which is why he often makes runs even when he looks all at sea. His innings was all class and he just didn't give SA a chance of coming back into the match.
Was nice to see Blundell score some runs again, though I'm not sure he's long term answer, his glovework isn't great and being a bit of a purist when it comes to keeping I'd like to see someone a lot tidier behind the stumps.
CdG did what he does best, and Wags scoring runs was really just pouring salt into a gaping wound. There really isn't any negatives to take away from that, it was such a complete performance. It must have been very tough viewing for SA fans.
And on SA, to be blunt, that was a spineless performance. Their bolwers as a unit played like they are used to getting their own way, and when they faced genuine resistance they lost the plot. By the end there they were bowling in the 120s and regularly losing their line and length. Our lower order just dined out on that shit pushing the game well beyond reach.
And their fielding was also piss poor, you can't just drop top order players multiple times and expect to be in the game. Club level stuff.
Their batting has been a problem for them for a while now with no genuinely world class players in their lineup so it was not entirely surprising that they struggled against our bowlers, but for me their bowling and fielding were the biggest disappointments.
So onto the next test and I'd expect SA to be a damn sight better (they can't really be any worse). A draw between these sides seems unlikely, so SA will be praying they win the toss so they can try and put us under some pressure early in the game.
One last comment is it's still hard to come to terms with just how good our test side is right now. It really is a golden era and I am savouring every moment of it.
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
So apparently Boult is available for the next test. What a fun problem for the selectors to have. Does he slot straight back in and if so for who ?
I don’t think he’s quite the key man he used to be and at the same time whilst he’s regressed ( only a bit mind ) Southee has done the bottle of wine thing and gotten better.
It’s a pretty tough problem the selectors have to be honest.
It will be tough to leave Henry out. Big question for me is if the Saffas will work him out in time for the next game? And if so I'm not convinced he has a plan B
@canefan said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
So apparently Boult is available for the next test. What a fun problem for the selectors to have. Does he slot straight back in and if so for who ?
I don’t think he’s quite the key man he used to be and at the same time whilst he’s regressed ( only a bit mind ) Southee has done the bottle of wine thing and gotten better.
It’s a pretty tough problem the selectors have to be honest.
It will be tough to leave Henry out. Big question for me is if the Saffas will work him out in time for the next game? And if so I'm not convinced he has a plan B
Yeah it’s one of those ‘has he turned the corner or was that a once in a lifetime moment?’
I honestly don’t know how five will go into four given I thought Henry would be mediocre and a placeholder at best.
I reckon Jamieson and Wags are safe as 3rd and 4th seamers.
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
So apparently Boult is available for the next test. What a fun problem for the selectors to have. Does he slot straight back in and if so for who ?
I don’t think he’s quite the key man he used to be and at the same time whilst he’s regressed ( only a bit mind ) Southee has done the bottle of wine thing and gotten better.
It’s a pretty tough problem the selectors have to be honest.
Boult has always been an ODI specialist that was also effective in the tests - basically the reverse of Southee. He's a lock for the ODI team but less so for the tests, though he has a wealth of experience that can't be overlooked.
Agree it's a very tough call for the selectors.
@canefan said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
So apparently Boult is available for the next test. What a fun problem for the selectors to have. Does he slot straight back in and if so for who ?
I don’t think he’s quite the key man he used to be and at the same time whilst he’s regressed ( only a bit mind ) Southee has done the bottle of wine thing and gotten better.
It’s a pretty tough problem the selectors have to be honest.
It will be tough to leave Henry out. Big question for me is if the Saffas will work him out in time for the next game? And if so I'm not convinced he has a plan B
He doesn't need a plan B if he hits 8m length outside Off 4th or 5th stump at 140 ks you will not score from that.Thats how he got wkts in this test.
You can't work that out its been the plan since god knows when.
@chris said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@canefan said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
So apparently Boult is available for the next test. What a fun problem for the selectors to have. Does he slot straight back in and if so for who ?
I don’t think he’s quite the key man he used to be and at the same time whilst he’s regressed ( only a bit mind ) Southee has done the bottle of wine thing and gotten better.
It’s a pretty tough problem the selectors have to be honest.
It will be tough to leave Henry out. Big question for me is if the Saffas will work him out in time for the next game? And if so I'm not convinced he has a plan B
He doesn't need a plan B if he hits 8m length outside Off 4th or 5th stump at 140 ks you will not score from that.Thats how he got wkts in this test.
You can't work that out its been the plan since god knows when.
The saffa bats barely got a look at him before getting out. It's his home track. Trent hasn't had any cricket. I think they should double down on Henry
@canefan said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@chris said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@canefan said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
So apparently Boult is available for the next test. What a fun problem for the selectors to have. Does he slot straight back in and if so for who ?
I don’t think he’s quite the key man he used to be and at the same time whilst he’s regressed ( only a bit mind ) Southee has done the bottle of wine thing and gotten better.
It’s a pretty tough problem the selectors have to be honest.
It will be tough to leave Henry out. Big question for me is if the Saffas will work him out in time for the next game? And if so I'm not convinced he has a plan B
He doesn't need a plan B if he hits 8m length outside Off 4th or 5th stump at 140 ks you will not score from that.Thats how he got wkts in this test.
You can't work that out its been the plan since god knows when.The saffa bats barely got a look at him before getting out. It's his home track. Trent hasn't had any cricket. I think they should double down on Henry
Hard choice really Boult is classy.But Henry would be hard done by to be dropped.I suppose you have to reward performance, it drives a healthy culture within the squad.
Excellent performance by NZ, liked how ruthless they were, never took the foot off the throat at any stage, great pressure bowling & top catching... to be fair South Africa had a real howler, didn't bowl in good areas consistently, their shot selection was poor & so was their catching,
they're too good to play that badly again in the 2nd Test.
NZ won by an innings and 276 runs
@chris said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@canefan said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@chris said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@canefan said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
So apparently Boult is available for the next test. What a fun problem for the selectors to have. Does he slot straight back in and if so for who ?
I don’t think he’s quite the key man he used to be and at the same time whilst he’s regressed ( only a bit mind ) Southee has done the bottle of wine thing and gotten better.
It’s a pretty tough problem the selectors have to be honest.
It will be tough to leave Henry out. Big question for me is if the Saffas will work him out in time for the next game? And if so I'm not convinced he has a plan B
He doesn't need a plan B if he hits 8m length outside Off 4th or 5th stump at 140 ks you will not score from that.Thats how he got wkts in this test.
You can't work that out its been the plan since god knows when.The saffa bats barely got a look at him before getting out. It's his home track. Trent hasn't had any cricket. I think they should double down on Henry
Hard choice really Boult is classy.But Henry would be hard done by to be dropped.I suppose you have to reward performance, it drives a healthy culture within the squad.
I am no Henry fan. But he was so effective, how can you leave him out when it's the same opposition, same ground? I'll have no problem if he drops out to make way for Boult. But for a change I'll be okay with Henry getting another match
@no-quarter said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
A few jumbled thoughts on the game
Henry set the game up with his 7-for, and Nicholls finished them off with his ton. After that it was really just a matter of what the winning margin would be, and by fuck were we ruthless. That's one of the most clinical performances we've put together which is saying a lot given we are the WTC champions and we were missing 4 world class players that were at the heart of that WTC win. It also makes the first test against the Bangles even harder to get your head around, it was such an aberration, but test cricket can be a fluffybunny of a game sometimes.
Henry's performance was really world class. Didn't try to do too much, just got into a good rhythm and hit the right line and length on a consistent basis. He was unplayable. If it wasn't for Southee and Boult he would have played a lot more games, and based on his first class numbers he'd have a good record too. The 58* was fun, showed he can hold a bat but SA were demoralised at that point.
I genuinely thought we'd get rolled pretty cheap given the conditions and the SA lineup. I actually would have been content with 200 but boy did Nicholls stand up. Yeah he's a bit of a home track bully but those were not easy circumstances to come out in. He's a funny old player, obviously doesn't have the talent of some of our other blokes but he's mentally so strong, nothing seems to faze him which is why he often makes runs even when he looks all at sea. His innings was all class and he just didn't give SA a chance of coming back into the match.
Was nice to see Blundell score some runs again, though I'm not sure he's long term answer, his glovework isn't great and being a bit of a purist when it comes to keeping I'd like to see someone a lot tidier behind the stumps.
CdG did what he does best, and Wags scoring runs was really just pouring salt into a gaping wound. There really isn't any negatives to take away from that, it was such a complete performance. It must have been very tough viewing for SA fans.
And on SA, to be blunt, that was a spineless performance. Their bolwers as a unit played like they are used to getting their own way, and when they faced genuine resistance they lost the plot. By the end there they were bowling in the 120s and regularly losing their line and length. Our lower order just dined out on that shit pushing the game well beyond reach.
And their fielding was also piss poor, you can't just drop top order players multiple times and expect to be in the game. Club level stuff.
Their batting has been a problem for them for a while now with no genuinely world class players in their lineup so it was not entirely surprising that they struggled against our bowlers, but for me their bowling and fielding were the biggest disappointments.
So onto the next test and I'd expect SA to be a damn sight better (they can't really be any worse). A draw between these sides seems unlikely, so SA will be praying they win the toss so they can try and put us under some pressure early in the game.
One last comment is it's still hard to come to terms with just how good our test side is right now. It really is a golden era and I am savouring every moment of it.
Good comments,Loving our success as well.Been through a few years of falling apart and getting touched up.
We are building some decent depth, and players are having to stand up to keep getting selected.
@no-quarter said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
still hard to come to terms with just how good our test side is right now. It really is a golden era and I am savouring every moment of it.
Through the years we have usually had only 2 or 3 world class players in a team, so if they didn't perform we'd really struggle, over the last several years we have built up some really good depth to the point we now have a lot of match winners in our team... bloody great how we have so much variation in our pace bowling, even in a place like India we have blokes that can bowl late swing on their slow low wickets, also with Jamieson's height he's going to be awkward face on any type of pitch.
@no-quarter said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
Was nice to see Blundell score some runs again, though I'm not sure he's a long term answer, his glovework isn't great and being a bit of a purist when it comes to keeping I'd like to see someone a lot tidier behind the stumps.
Thought Blundell played plenty of superb drives along the deck, very stylish shots - reckon he was pretty tidy in the test as our keeper, also he's improving in every test he plays... some keepers tend to be standing up too high behind the stumps, it's easier to crouch a bit lower down first then move upwards to take the ball if needed, than standing a bit taller & having to bend down low to catch it.
@tewaio said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
Our cricket team is everything I wish our rugby team still was
I would say the two teams are similar at the moment. It was only a couple of tests ago the Caps lost to the Bangles.
@crazy-horse rose tinted glasses
One is world yeast champions, the other is struggling to beat other top teams and is playing a game plan years out of date
@crazy-horse said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@tewaio said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
Our cricket team is everything I wish our rugby team still was
I would say the two teams are similar at the moment. It was only a couple of tests ago the Caps lost to the Bangles.
On test ranking points that would be like ABs losing to Israel or Luxembourg
@nzbloke said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@no-quarter said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
still hard to come to terms with just how good our test side is right now. It really is a golden era and I am savouring every moment of it.
Through the years we have usually had only 2 or 3 world class players in a team, so if they didn't perform we'd really struggle, over the last several years we have built up some really good depth to the point we now have a lot of match winners in our team... bloody great how we have so much variation in our pace bowling, even in a place like India we have blokes that can bowl late swing on their slow low wickets, also with Jamieson's height he's going to be awkward face on any type of pitch.
Depends how you define ‘World Class’….that’s a label I’d only put on two guys in our entire history to be honest, Paddles and KW. Of course we’ve also had quite a few I’d consider excellent players, many of who just played.
I do get what you’re saying though I remember 15 or so years ago when Vettori and McCullum carried the team on their own.
@crazy-horse said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@tewaio said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
Our cricket team is everything I wish our rugby team still was
I would say the two teams are similar at the moment. It was only a couple of tests ago the Caps lost to the Bangles.
I don’t. South Africa have some class bowlers but their top order is very ordinary.
Mind you with KW and Taylor not being there maybe you have a point.
As you were.
@no-quarter said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
A few jumbled thoughts on the game
Henry set the game up with his 7-for, and Nicholls finished them off with his ton. After that it was really just a matter of what the winning margin would be, and by fuck were we ruthless. That's one of the most clinical performances we've put together which is saying a lot given we are the WTC champions and we were missing 4 world class players that were at the heart of that WTC win. It also makes the first test against the Bangles even harder to get your head around, it was such an aberration, but test cricket can be a fluffybunny of a game sometimes.
Henry's performance was really world class. Didn't try to do too much, just got into a good rhythm and hit the right line and length on a consistent basis. He was unplayable. If it wasn't for Southee and Boult he would have played a lot more games, and based on his first class numbers he'd have a good record too. The 58* was fun, showed he can hold a bat but SA were demoralised at that point.
I genuinely thought we'd get rolled pretty cheap given the conditions and the SA lineup. I actually would have been content with 200 but boy did Nicholls stand up. Yeah he's a bit of a home track bully but those were not easy circumstances to come out in. He's a funny old player, obviously doesn't have the talent of some of our other blokes but he's mentally so strong, nothing seems to faze him which is why he often makes runs even when he looks all at sea. His innings was all class and he just didn't give SA a chance of coming back into the match.
Was nice to see Blundell score some runs again, though I'm not sure he's a long term answer, his glovework isn't great and being a bit of a purist when it comes to keeping I'd like to see someone a lot tidier behind the stumps.
CdG did what he does best, and Wags scoring runs was really just pouring salt into a gaping wound. There really isn't any negatives to take away from that, it was such a complete performance. It must have been very tough viewing for SA fans.
And on SA, to be blunt, that was a spineless performance. Their bolwers as a unit played like they are used to getting their own way, and when they faced genuine resistance they lost the plot. By the end there they were bowling in the 120s and regularly losing their line and length. Our lower order just dined out on that shit pushing the game well beyond reach.
And their fielding was also piss poor, you can't just drop top order players multiple times and expect to be in the game. Club level stuff.
Their batting has been a problem for them for a while now with no genuinely world class players in their lineup so it was not entirely surprising that they struggled against our bowlers, but for me their bowling and fielding were the biggest disappointments.
So onto the next test and I'd expect SA to be a damn sight better (they can't really be any worse). A draw between these sides seems unlikely, so SA will be praying they win the toss so they can try and put us under some pressure early in the game.
One last comment is it's still hard to come to terms with just how good our test side is right now. It really is a golden era and I am savouring every moment of it.
I agree with absolutely everything except maybe the last sentence as the cynic in me believes we’re starting to decline with the injuries/retirements we’re having.
Then again and innings and 276 runs is a handy victory so what do I know !
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@nzbloke said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@no-quarter said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
still hard to come to terms with just how good our test side is right now. It really is a golden era and I am savouring every moment of it.
Through the years we have usually had only 2 or 3 world class players in a team, so if they didn't perform we'd really struggle, over the last several years we have built up some really good depth to the point we now have a lot of match winners in our team... bloody great how we have so much variation in our pace bowling, even in a place like India we have blokes that can bowl late swing on their slow low wickets, also with Jamieson's height he's going to be awkward face on any type of pitch.
Depends how you define ‘World Class’….that’s a label I’d only put on two guys in our entire history to be honest, Paddles and KW. Of course we’ve also had quite a few I’d consider excellent players, many of who just played.
I do get what you’re saying though I remember 15 or so years ago when Vettori and McCullum carried the team on their own.
Martin Crowe not World Class? Bro....
@voodoo said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@nzbloke said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@no-quarter said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
still hard to come to terms with just how good our test side is right now. It really is a golden era and I am savouring every moment of it.
Through the years we have usually had only 2 or 3 world class players in a team, so if they didn't perform we'd really struggle, over the last several years we have built up some really good depth to the point we now have a lot of match winners in our team... bloody great how we have so much variation in our pace bowling, even in a place like India we have blokes that can bowl late swing on their slow low wickets, also with Jamieson's height he's going to be awkward face on any type of pitch.
Depends how you define ‘World Class’….that’s a label I’d only put on two guys in our entire history to be honest, Paddles and KW. Of course we’ve also had quite a few I’d consider excellent players, many of who just played.
I do get what you’re saying though I remember 15 or so years ago when Vettori and McCullum carried the team on their own.
Martin Crowe not World Class? Bro....
Borderline. One of our absolute best for sure but just a notch below those others IMHO. Of his era guys like G Chappell, Border, Richards, Miandad and Gavaskar were legends. Marty fits in with that next tier…..Gooch, Gower, Richardson, Greenidge, Haynes and others who are either ‘great’ or ‘very good’ depending on your personal definition I guess.
Those are some fucken good players so no disgrace being part of that group…..but Paddles and KW are just that next level again.
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@voodoo said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@nzbloke said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@no-quarter said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
still hard to come to terms with just how good our test side is right now. It really is a golden era and I am savouring every moment of it.
Through the years we have usually had only 2 or 3 world class players in a team, so if they didn't perform we'd really struggle, over the last several years we have built up some really good depth to the point we now have a lot of match winners in our team... bloody great how we have so much variation in our pace bowling, even in a place like India we have blokes that can bowl late swing on their slow low wickets, also with Jamieson's height he's going to be awkward face on any type of pitch.
Depends how you define ‘World Class’….that’s a label I’d only put on two guys in our entire history to be honest, Paddles and KW. Of course we’ve also had quite a few I’d consider excellent players, many of who just played.
I do get what you’re saying though I remember 15 or so years ago when Vettori and McCullum carried the team on their own.
Martin Crowe not World Class? Bro....
Borderline. One of our absolute best for sure but just a notch below those others IMHO. Of his era guys like G Chappell, Border, Richards, Miandad and Gavaskar were legends. Marty fits in with that next tier…..Gooch, Gower, Richardson, Greenidge, Haynes and others who are either ‘great’ or ‘very good’ depending on your personal definition I guess.
Those are some fucken good players so no disgrace being part of that group…..but Paddles and KW are just that next level again.
The only thing that stopped him having an even better record was injury
@machpants said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@crazy-horse said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@tewaio said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
Our cricket team is everything I wish our rugby team still was
I would say the two teams are similar at the moment. It was only a couple of tests ago the Caps lost to the Bangles.
On test ranking points that would be like ABs losing to Israel or Luxembourg
Hyperbole much?
Argentina or Italy maybe
@booboo said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@machpants said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@crazy-horse said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@tewaio said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
Our cricket team is everything I wish our rugby team still was
I would say the two teams are similar at the moment. It was only a couple of tests ago the Caps lost to the Bangles.
On test ranking points that would be like ABs losing to Israel or Luxembourg
Hyperbole much?
Argentina or Italy maybe
Not all all, that's why I said points. Bangles have about 40% of the points that NZ does, 40% of ABs points is right down there. Not really comparable with only 10 test cricket Nations tho
Tongue was in cheek a fair bit ?
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@crazy-horse said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@tewaio said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
Our cricket team is everything I wish our rugby team still was
I would say the two teams are similar at the moment. It was only a couple of tests ago the Caps lost to the Bangles.
I don’t. South Africa have some class bowlers but their top order is very ordinary.
Mind you with KW and Taylor not being there maybe you have a point.
As you were.
I was actually referring to the ABs and the Black Caps being similar at the moment. Capable of losing to (traditionally) lesser teams but always a chance against the top teams. But it wasn't really something I gave much thought to.
@canefan said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@voodoo said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@nzbloke said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@no-quarter said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
still hard to come to terms with just how good our test side is right now. It really is a golden era and I am savouring every moment of it.
Through the years we have usually had only 2 or 3 world class players in a team, so if they didn't perform we'd really struggle, over the last several years we have built up some really good depth to the point we now have a lot of match winners in our team... bloody great how we have so much variation in our pace bowling, even in a place like India we have blokes that can bowl late swing on their slow low wickets, also with Jamieson's height he's going to be awkward face on any type of pitch.
Depends how you define ‘World Class’….that’s a label I’d only put on two guys in our entire history to be honest, Paddles and KW. Of course we’ve also had quite a few I’d consider excellent players, many of who just played.
I do get what you’re saying though I remember 15 or so years ago when Vettori and McCullum carried the team on their own.
Martin Crowe not World Class? Bro....
Borderline. One of our absolute best for sure but just a notch below those others IMHO. Of his era guys like G Chappell, Border, Richards, Miandad and Gavaskar were legends. Marty fits in with that next tier…..Gooch, Gower, Richardson, Greenidge, Haynes and others who are either ‘great’ or ‘very good’ depending on your personal definition I guess.
Those are some fucken good players so no disgrace being part of that group…..but Paddles and KW are just that next level again.
The only thing that stopped him having an even better record was injury
Probably a fair call. He also had a poor start which didn’t help.
But to sum him up IMHO. Kiwi great ? Yes. Would walk into any squad in the word in his era ? Also yes. A certainty for a BCs all time XI ? You got it.
Deadset all time legend by world standards ? Not quite.
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@canefan said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@voodoo said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@nzbloke said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@no-quarter said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
still hard to come to terms with just how good our test side is right now. It really is a golden era and I am savouring every moment of it.
Through the years we have usually had only 2 or 3 world class players in a team, so if they didn't perform we'd really struggle, over the last several years we have built up some really good depth to the point we now have a lot of match winners in our team... bloody great how we have so much variation in our pace bowling, even in a place like India we have blokes that can bowl late swing on their slow low wickets, also with Jamieson's height he's going to be awkward face on any type of pitch.
Depends how you define ‘World Class’….that’s a label I’d only put on two guys in our entire history to be honest, Paddles and KW. Of course we’ve also had quite a few I’d consider excellent players, many of who just played.
I do get what you’re saying though I remember 15 or so years ago when Vettori and McCullum carried the team on their own.
Martin Crowe not World Class? Bro....
Borderline. One of our absolute best for sure but just a notch below those others IMHO. Of his era guys like G Chappell, Border, Richards, Miandad and Gavaskar were legends. Marty fits in with that next tier…..Gooch, Gower, Richardson, Greenidge, Haynes and others who are either ‘great’ or ‘very good’ depending on your personal definition I guess.
Those are some fucken good players so no disgrace being part of that group…..but Paddles and KW are just that next level again.
The only thing that stopped him having an even better record was injury
Probably a fair call. He also had a poor start which didn’t help.
But to sum him up IMHO. Kiwi great ? Yes. Would walk into any squad in the word in his era ? Also yes. Deadset all time legend ? Not quite.
I truly believe if he hadn't had to sit out the second innings of the CWC1992 semifinal we would have won it all
@canefan said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@canefan said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@voodoo said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@nzbloke said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@no-quarter said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
still hard to come to terms with just how good our test side is right now. It really is a golden era and I am savouring every moment of it.
Through the years we have usually had only 2 or 3 world class players in a team, so if they didn't perform we'd really struggle, over the last several years we have built up some really good depth to the point we now have a lot of match winners in our team... bloody great how we have so much variation in our pace bowling, even in a place like India we have blokes that can bowl late swing on their slow low wickets, also with Jamieson's height he's going to be awkward face on any type of pitch.
Depends how you define ‘World Class’….that’s a label I’d only put on two guys in our entire history to be honest, Paddles and KW. Of course we’ve also had quite a few I’d consider excellent players, many of who just played.
I do get what you’re saying though I remember 15 or so years ago when Vettori and McCullum carried the team on their own.
Martin Crowe not World Class? Bro....
Borderline. One of our absolute best for sure but just a notch below those others IMHO. Of his era guys like G Chappell, Border, Richards, Miandad and Gavaskar were legends. Marty fits in with that next tier…..Gooch, Gower, Richardson, Greenidge, Haynes and others who are either ‘great’ or ‘very good’ depending on your personal definition I guess.
Those are some fucken good players so no disgrace being part of that group…..but Paddles and KW are just that next level again.
The only thing that stopped him having an even better record was injury
Probably a fair call. He also had a poor start which didn’t help.
But to sum him up IMHO. Kiwi great ? Yes. Would walk into any squad in the word in his era ? Also yes. Deadset all time legend ? Not quite.
I truly believe if he hadn't had to sit out the second innings of the CWC1992 semifinal we would have won it all
Throw in his captaincy too and you can see how we did so well. I caught every single game of that tournament and loved it all. Such great memories.
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@canefan said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@canefan said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@voodoo said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@nzbloke said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@no-quarter said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
still hard to come to terms with just how good our test side is right now. It really is a golden era and I am savouring every moment of it.
Through the years we have usually had only 2 or 3 world class players in a team, so if they didn't perform we'd really struggle, over the last several years we have built up some really good depth to the point we now have a lot of match winners in our team... bloody great how we have so much variation in our pace bowling, even in a place like India we have blokes that can bowl late swing on their slow low wickets, also with Jamieson's height he's going to be awkward face on any type of pitch.
Depends how you define ‘World Class’….that’s a label I’d only put on two guys in our entire history to be honest, Paddles and KW. Of course we’ve also had quite a few I’d consider excellent players, many of who just played.
I do get what you’re saying though I remember 15 or so years ago when Vettori and McCullum carried the team on their own.
Martin Crowe not World Class? Bro....
Borderline. One of our absolute best for sure but just a notch below those others IMHO. Of his era guys like G Chappell, Border, Richards, Miandad and Gavaskar were legends. Marty fits in with that next tier…..Gooch, Gower, Richardson, Greenidge, Haynes and others who are either ‘great’ or ‘very good’ depending on your personal definition I guess.
Those are some fucken good players so no disgrace being part of that group…..but Paddles and KW are just that next level again.
The only thing that stopped him having an even better record was injury
Probably a fair call. He also had a poor start which didn’t help.
But to sum him up IMHO. Kiwi great ? Yes. Would walk into any squad in the word in his era ? Also yes. Deadset all time legend ? Not quite.
I truly believe if he hadn't had to sit out the second innings of the CWC1992 semifinal we would have won it all
Throw in his captaincy too and you can see how we did so well. I caught every single game of that tournament and loved it all. Such great memories.
His onfield captaincy was key. Opening the bowling with Patel was revolutionary. John Wright tried his best but I think Crowe would have found a way slow the Pakistanis down
@canefan said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@canefan said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@canefan said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@voodoo said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@nzbloke said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@no-quarter said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
still hard to come to terms with just how good our test side is right now. It really is a golden era and I am savouring every moment of it.
Through the years we have usually had only 2 or 3 world class players in a team, so if they didn't perform we'd really struggle, over the last several years we have built up some really good depth to the point we now have a lot of match winners in our team... bloody great how we have so much variation in our pace bowling, even in a place like India we have blokes that can bowl late swing on their slow low wickets, also with Jamieson's height he's going to be awkward face on any type of pitch.
Depends how you define ‘World Class’….that’s a label I’d only put on two guys in our entire history to be honest, Paddles and KW. Of course we’ve also had quite a few I’d consider excellent players, many of who just played.
I do get what you’re saying though I remember 15 or so years ago when Vettori and McCullum carried the team on their own.
Martin Crowe not World Class? Bro....
Borderline. One of our absolute best for sure but just a notch below those others IMHO. Of his era guys like G Chappell, Border, Richards, Miandad and Gavaskar were legends. Marty fits in with that next tier…..Gooch, Gower, Richardson, Greenidge, Haynes and others who are either ‘great’ or ‘very good’ depending on your personal definition I guess.
Those are some fucken good players so no disgrace being part of that group…..but Paddles and KW are just that next level again.
The only thing that stopped him having an even better record was injury
Probably a fair call. He also had a poor start which didn’t help.
But to sum him up IMHO. Kiwi great ? Yes. Would walk into any squad in the word in his era ? Also yes. Deadset all time legend ? Not quite.
I truly believe if he hadn't had to sit out the second innings of the CWC1992 semifinal we would have won it all
Throw in his captaincy too and you can see how we did so well. I caught every single game of that tournament and loved it all. Such great memories.
His onfield captaincy was key. Opening the bowling with Patel was revolutionary. John Wright tried his best but I think Crowe would have found a way slow the Pakistanis down
I’m not so sure. Old spud head Inzy scored at a ridiculous rate, especially for that era.
Pakistan peaked at the right time, aided by some ridiculous good luck with the weather if I remember rightly.
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@canefan said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@canefan said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@canefan said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@voodoo said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@nzbloke said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@no-quarter said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
still hard to come to terms with just how good our test side is right now. It really is a golden era and I am savouring every moment of it.
Through the years we have usually had only 2 or 3 world class players in a team, so if they didn't perform we'd really struggle, over the last several years we have built up some really good depth to the point we now have a lot of match winners in our team... bloody great how we have so much variation in our pace bowling, even in a place like India we have blokes that can bowl late swing on their slow low wickets, also with Jamieson's height he's going to be awkward face on any type of pitch.
Depends how you define ‘World Class’….that’s a label I’d only put on two guys in our entire history to be honest, Paddles and KW. Of course we’ve also had quite a few I’d consider excellent players, many of who just played.
I do get what you’re saying though I remember 15 or so years ago when Vettori and McCullum carried the team on their own.
Martin Crowe not World Class? Bro....
Borderline. One of our absolute best for sure but just a notch below those others IMHO. Of his era guys like G Chappell, Border, Richards, Miandad and Gavaskar were legends. Marty fits in with that next tier…..Gooch, Gower, Richardson, Greenidge, Haynes and others who are either ‘great’ or ‘very good’ depending on your personal definition I guess.
Those are some fucken good players so no disgrace being part of that group…..but Paddles and KW are just that next level again.
The only thing that stopped him having an even better record was injury
Probably a fair call. He also had a poor start which didn’t help.
But to sum him up IMHO. Kiwi great ? Yes. Would walk into any squad in the word in his era ? Also yes. Deadset all time legend ? Not quite.
I truly believe if he hadn't had to sit out the second innings of the CWC1992 semifinal we would have won it all
Throw in his captaincy too and you can see how we did so well. I caught every single game of that tournament and loved it all. Such great memories.
His onfield captaincy was key. Opening the bowling with Patel was revolutionary. John Wright tried his best but I think Crowe would have found a way slow the Pakistanis down
I’m not so sure. Old spud head Inzy scored at a ridiculous rate, especially for that era.
Pakistan peaked at the right time, aided by some ridiculous good luck with the weather if I remember rightly.
Inzi definitely won it for them. We'll never know
@canefan said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@canefan said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@voodoo said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@nzbloke said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@no-quarter said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
still hard to come to terms with just how good our test side is right now. It really is a golden era and I am savouring every moment of it.
Through the years we have usually had only 2 or 3 world class players in a team, so if they didn't perform we'd really struggle, over the last several years we have built up some really good depth to the point we now have a lot of match winners in our team... bloody great how we have so much variation in our pace bowling, even in a place like India we have blokes that can bowl late swing on their slow low wickets, also with Jamieson's height he's going to be awkward face on any type of pitch.
Depends how you define ‘World Class’….that’s a label I’d only put on two guys in our entire history to be honest, Paddles and KW. Of course we’ve also had quite a few I’d consider excellent players, many of who just played.
I do get what you’re saying though I remember 15 or so years ago when Vettori and McCullum carried the team on their own.
Martin Crowe not World Class? Bro....
Borderline. One of our absolute best for sure but just a notch below those others IMHO. Of his era guys like G Chappell, Border, Richards, Miandad and Gavaskar were legends. Marty fits in with that next tier…..Gooch, Gower, Richardson, Greenidge, Haynes and others who are either ‘great’ or ‘very good’ depending on your personal definition I guess.
Those are some fucken good players so no disgrace being part of that group…..but Paddles and KW are just that next level again.
The only thing that stopped him having an even better record was injury
Probably a fair call. He also had a poor start which didn’t help.
But to sum him up IMHO. Kiwi great ? Yes. Would walk into any squad in the word in his era ? Also yes. Deadset all time legend ? Not quite.
I truly believe if he hadn't had to sit out the second innings of the CWC1992 semifinal we would have won it all
Doubt it. Things were going almost exactly to the plan successful in that tournament. Build up huge run rate pressure via the dibbly dobblers. But few wickets had chipped out.
But. Pakistan executed their plan perfectly. 2 old heads built up the base and preserved wickets. Imran able to change gear, Inzamam was incredible.
No captaincy magic fairy dust was going to change it.
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@canefan said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@voodoo said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@nzbloke said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@no-quarter said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
still hard to come to terms with just how good our test side is right now. It really is a golden era and I am savouring every moment of it.
Through the years we have usually had only 2 or 3 world class players in a team, so if they didn't perform we'd really struggle, over the last several years we have built up some really good depth to the point we now have a lot of match winners in our team... bloody great how we have so much variation in our pace bowling, even in a place like India we have blokes that can bowl late swing on their slow low wickets, also with Jamieson's height he's going to be awkward face on any type of pitch.
Depends how you define ‘World Class’….that’s a label I’d only put on two guys in our entire history to be honest, Paddles and KW. Of course we’ve also had quite a few I’d consider excellent players, many of who just played.
I do get what you’re saying though I remember 15 or so years ago when Vettori and McCullum carried the team on their own.
Martin Crowe not World Class? Bro....
Borderline. One of our absolute best for sure but just a notch below those others IMHO. Of his era guys like G Chappell, Border, Richards, Miandad and Gavaskar were legends. Marty fits in with that next tier…..Gooch, Gower, Richardson, Greenidge, Haynes and others who are either ‘great’ or ‘very good’ depending on your personal definition I guess.
Those are some fucken good players so no disgrace being part of that group…..but Paddles and KW are just that next level again.
The only thing that stopped him having an even better record was injury
Probably a fair call. He also had a poor start which didn’t help.
But to sum him up IMHO. Kiwi great ? Yes. Would walk into any squad in the word in his era ? Also yes. A certainty for a BCs all time XI ? You got it.
Deadset all time legend by world standards ? Not quite.
His case for all time legend status is complicated by injuries and playing for a country that didn't play test cricket on the biggest stage very often. His natural batting peak also coincided with Paddles retirement and some of our worst teams ever.
That said I'm inclined to give him all time great status simply because he does seem revered by his contemporaries and is constantly referenced as being one of the toughest batsman bowlers faced in that era. This is but one such example.
It is very difficult to put anyone from his era aside from Viv Richards conclusively above him as a batsman unless you give a lot of weight to things he never would have been able to do like play the number of tests Border did or have an epic 5 test series in England where he filled his boots.
@rotated said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@canefan said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@voodoo said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@nzbloke said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@no-quarter said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
still hard to come to terms with just how good our test side is right now. It really is a golden era and I am savouring every moment of it.
Through the years we have usually had only 2 or 3 world class players in a team, so if they didn't perform we'd really struggle, over the last several years we have built up some really good depth to the point we now have a lot of match winners in our team... bloody great how we have so much variation in our pace bowling, even in a place like India we have blokes that can bowl late swing on their slow low wickets, also with Jamieson's height he's going to be awkward face on any type of pitch.
Depends how you define ‘World Class’….that’s a label I’d only put on two guys in our entire history to be honest, Paddles and KW. Of course we’ve also had quite a few I’d consider excellent players, many of who just played.
I do get what you’re saying though I remember 15 or so years ago when Vettori and McCullum carried the team on their own.
Martin Crowe not World Class? Bro....
Borderline. One of our absolute best for sure but just a notch below those others IMHO. Of his era guys like G Chappell, Border, Richards, Miandad and Gavaskar were legends. Marty fits in with that next tier…..Gooch, Gower, Richardson, Greenidge, Haynes and others who are either ‘great’ or ‘very good’ depending on your personal definition I guess.
Those are some fucken good players so no disgrace being part of that group…..but Paddles and KW are just that next level again.
The only thing that stopped him having an even better record was injury
Probably a fair call. He also had a poor start which didn’t help.
But to sum him up IMHO. Kiwi great ? Yes. Would walk into any squad in the word in his era ? Also yes. A certainty for a BCs all time XI ? You got it.
Deadset all time legend by world standards ? Not quite.
His case for all time legend status is complicated by injuries and playing for a country that didn't play test cricket on the biggest stage very often. His natural batting peak also coincided with Paddles retirement and some of our worst teams ever.
That said I'm inclined to give him all time great status simply because he does seem revered by his contemporaries and is constantly referenced as being one of the toughest batsman bowlers faced in that era. This is but one such example.
It is very difficult to put anyone from his era aside from Viv Richards conclusively above him as a batsman unless you give a lot of weight to things he never would have been able to do like play the number of tests Border did or have an epic 5 test series in England where he filled his boots.
Not playing as many tests didn’t hinder Paddles legacy on the game though ( although a 17 year career by rights should have seen him play 150 odd tests, not 86, damn you international cricket board ) if you look at some of the records of the gutsy triers who played alongside Sir Richard it’s staggering how ordinary some of them were but yet the great man still lead them to lots of amazing victories.
I just think overall Crowe is behind the guys I mentioned plus Tendulkar and Lara who emerged towards the end of his career. Great, but just short of legend status.
I certainly take on board what Wasim says to be fair. If the best left arm pace bowler ever rated you then you must have been pretty damn good.
Firstly on Martin Crowe:
Australian legend Shane Warne ranked Crowe in his top 100 Test cricketers of all time, saying the Kiwi had a full range of shots and handled pace and spin equally well.
He was such a stylish and elegant player, with a touch of grace and the same skills as the best Indian players of picking up a length very early," Warne wrote.
And then to the series at hand... while I suspect that Stead being Stead will see Boult straight back in for Henry... I'm not sure what I'd do in the selectors shoes. Possibly an unchanged side. Possibly bring back Boult for Henry, or possibly give one of the other seamers a rest.
I'm still in two minds about Mitchell at 5 in Test Matches, but in practice I guess he (or whoever else they'd have picked) is a fill in until Williamson's elbow sorts itself out.
@donsteppa said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
Firstly on Martin Crowe:
Australian legend Shane Warne ranked Crowe in his top 100 Test cricketers of all time, saying the Kiwi had a full range of shots and handled pace and spin equally well.
He was such a stylish and elegant player, with a touch of grace and the same skills as the best Indian players of picking up a length very early," Warne wrote.
And then to the series at hand... while I suspect that Stead being Stead will see Boult straight back in for Henry... I'm not sure what I'd do in the selectors shoes. Possibly an unchanged side. Possibly bring back Boult for Henry, or possibly give one of the other seamers a rest.
I'm still in two minds about Mitchell at 5 in Test Matches, but in practice I guess he (or whoever else they'd have picked) is a fill in until Williamson's elbow sorts itself out.
What does Warnie know though ? 
Cricket: Warne rates Mark Waugh better than Steve - NZ Herald
As for more recent debates I think they need to give Mitchell another go given how bare the cupboard is.
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@nzbloke said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@no-quarter said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
still hard to come to terms with just how good our test side is right now. It really is a golden era and I am savouring every moment of it.
Through the years we have usually had only 2 or 3 world class players in a team, so if they didn't perform we'd really struggle, over the last several years we have built up some really good depth to the point we now have a lot of match winners in our team... bloody great how we have so much variation in our pace bowling, even in a place like India we have blokes that can bowl late swing on their slow low wickets, also with Jamieson's height he's going to be awkward face on any type of pitch.
Depends how you define ‘World Class’….that’s a label I’d only put on two guys in our entire history to be honest, Paddles and KW. Of course we’ve also had quite a few I’d consider excellent players, many of who just played.
I do get what you’re saying though I remember 15 or so years ago when Vettori and McCullum carried the team on their own.
You'd definitely have to include Martin Crowe, him & Hadlee carried the team for years.
@nzbloke said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@mn5 said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@nzbloke said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
@no-quarter said in Black Caps vs Proteas 2022:
still hard to come to terms with just how good our test side is right now. It really is a golden era and I am savouring every moment of it.
Through the years we have usually had only 2 or 3 world class players in a team, so if they didn't perform we'd really struggle, over the last several years we have built up some really good depth to the point we now have a lot of match winners in our team... bloody great how we have so much variation in our pace bowling, even in a place like India we have blokes that can bowl late swing on their slow low wickets, also with Jamieson's height he's going to be awkward face on any type of pitch.
Depends how you define ‘World Class’….that’s a label I’d only put on two guys in our entire history to be honest, Paddles and KW. Of course we’ve also had quite a few I’d consider excellent players, many of who just played.
I do get what you’re saying though I remember 15 or so years ago when Vettori and McCullum carried the team on their own.
You'd definitely have to include Martin Crowe, him & Hadlee carried the team for years.
But if you could only pick one you’d pick Paddles any day that ends in a Y