Lions vs Springbok II
Rightio, so a few thoughts.
Firstly, it was a match of two halves. Neither half will please the Lions fans.
Half one was every single thing that is wrong with modern rugby. It took 65 minutes, there was pretty much so no action, it was an absolute drudge fest. Fair play to the Lions for at least trying something here 'n there. Boks did nothing. It was 65 minutes of boof bash big guys into each other with a smattering of technical penalties in place. Utter utter dog shit. My children watched 4 matches of woman's sevens in the morning and I couldn't drag them away. They both lasted less than 3 minutes of the the biggest match of the last couple of years.
Lots of criticism of Ben O'Keefe and most of it is deserved, although I'm not sure it's his way. Yes, he could have kept things moving a bit more, yes he could have kicked off the stream, the literal fucking stream, of trainers running up and down and then on the second there was a break in play. He could have followed up on his earlier threats, he could have carded more etc etc. But what the fuck is he supposed to do?
World Rugby is his boss, and I think he ref'd it almost exactly the way they want the game to be ref'd. The shit ness of the first 40 belongs with the players / coaches, not the refs. Pretty much so no skilll on offer.
Cards. I've watched little rugby the last 18 months, but I cannot for the life of me why Kolbe should have been a red. Is the law now that you MIUST jump to catch it? Or if you jump, then you have ALL the rights? Thats completely absurd. Kolbe had his eyes on the ball the entire time, just because Conor jumped two feet in the air, why should Kolbe then be SENT OFF? Ridiculous.
Right, the second half. Much much better all around. SA were on top and used their strength advantage to great effect. A couple of very well taken tries and a real dominance.
I'm sure Itoje's line out steal though will ensure that UK writers still give him MOTM and use words like colossus to describe him. No doubt, the Bok's brain trust spent the week watching him & Lawes and they had their number. Neither achieved anything in this match, other than looking like boys against the men of SA. Very reminiscent of the 2nd half of the 2019 WC Final.
This Bok team is really something when they play their game. IT's just a shame it takes 40 minutes of boredom before it comes to the party. Although I guess if you are a supporter, you are probably ok with it ....
Nigel Owens. Unequivocally the best ref of the last 20 years. But he doesn't belong in a commentary box. He was so biased, and quite often, just so wrong. Did he ever make a call in SA favour? Even once? It was just terrible. A real shame. It's a shame Warburton is such a boring sounding guy (very monotone, not much x-factor) as everything he says is astute, smart and makes a lot of sense. Hopefully he'll grow into the role. Comes across as one of the game's great brains.
So in summary, don't bother catching a replay. Or if you must, start at half time. Next week is going to be interesting. Personally I think the Boys dealt a huge mental blow and the Lions won't get within 10 points.
@akan004 said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions II:
@victor-meldrew Yeah, Lood made a big difference.
He was owesome.
@bones said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions II:
Be interesting to see what citings come out of this. Itoje? Kolbe?
What did Itoje do?
@majorrage said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions II:
@bones said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions II:
Be interesting to see what citings come out of this. Itoje? Kolbe?
What did Itoje do?
Knelt on de Allende's throat.
wow, did not see that second half comign from the SA team. Forwards really stepped up; driving a maul 30 m is bloody impressive.
Been an absolutely arm wrestle of a series. Last week the rub of teh green went teh way of the Lions, and they squeaked home. This week, it went the other way - and the dominance just built. Very interesting; maybe coming in underdone is smart for the Bokke.
So, after teh biggest game between RWC today, we get treated to another one next weekend. Can't wait, will be great fun.
Kolbe was so stupid. Why the hell do people run into that space- they know it's forbidden. That said, probably a yellow.
Faf was lucky that tackle didn't get looked at, and that' he's short. If Eben does that, he's walking off the park I reckon.
Overall, a really fun tight tussle. I've found it engrossing. Thought BOK had one of his better games. That could have really kicked off, and he made clear decisions and communicated tehm well. Someone said 'he reffed the way World Rugby would want him to', adn I reckon they nailed it. Plenty of whistle, but hard to argue with msot of the decisions.
Roll on next week!
@nzzp said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions II:
wow, did not see that second half comign from the SA team. Forwards really stepped up; driving a maul 30 m is bloody impressive.
Been an absolutely arm wrestle of a series. Last week the rub of teh green went teh way of the Lions, and they squeaked home. This week, it went the other way - and the dominance just built. Very interesting; maybe coming in underdone is smart for the Bokke.
So, after teh biggest game between RWC today, we get treated to another one next weekend. Can't wait, will be great fun.
Kolbe was so stupid. Why the hell do people run into that space- they know it's forbidden. That said, probably a yellow.
Faf was lucky that tackle didn't get looked at, and that' he's short. If Eben does that, he's walking off the park I reckon.
Overall, a really fun tight tussle. I've found it engrossing. Thought BOK had one of his better games. That could have really kicked off, and he made clear decisions and communicated tehm well. Someone said 'he reffed the way World Rugby would want him to', adn I reckon they nailed it. Plenty of whistle, but hard to argue with msot of the decisions.
Roll on next week!
Ben can put his whistle away
@stag said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions II:
Another Gatland coached team playing Warren Ball, most uninspiring coach in the game.
I'm no particular fan of Warren, but he's a bloody good coach. That 17 Lions series were very very well coached, very cohesive, and played some good attackign rugby. I reckon it's a beatup
@kiwiinmelb said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions II:
Watched both games on delay very early on the Sunday morning when there wasn’t much else to do anyway.
But bloody hell , it’s hardly been riveting stuff .
Getting literal rivets driven into your body would be more entertaining.
@majorrage said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions II:
yes he could have kicked off the stream, the literal fucking stream, of trainers running up and down and then on the second there was a break in play.
Fucking hell. All of this. Sideline officials should have been giving team managers an absolute bollocking.
Fines for everyone.
@kiwiinmelb @nta I get that perspective, but disagree. It's not flair filled, as the offense and defense are so fast to teh breakdown and supporting; technique is top tier. It is a massive tussle, decided by fine margins and occasional brain farts. I've really enjoyed it, love the intensity and the passion. But it's not one to draw in new viewers, that's for sure
@nta said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions II:
@majorrage said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions II:
yes he could have kicked off the stream, the literal fucking stream, of trainers running up and down and then on the second there was a break in play.
Fucking hell. All of this. Sideline officials should have been giving team managers an absolute bollocking.
Fines for everyone.
If I were the benevolent dictator at world rugby, I'd ban support staff from the field unless the ref calls them on.
Also, would drop to 4 replacements off the bench, change body shapes and make players play the full 80. Would be so much a better game I reckon
@nzzp I'm all for intensity and passion. A bit of skill beyond "roost the ball" would be nice. Umbrella defences can be unlocked with the right set piece moves but neither side fired a shot.
EDIT: I guess what I'm saying is i appreciate the art of the bomb and the kick chase and the aerial stuff. But not when it makes up 98% of the game.
Just watched this and must gave seen a different game to the one commentated on here. I thought BOK was extremely good in a hell of a tough match to referee. Kolbe had eyes on ball throughout I thought so not a red in my view.
I thought the game changed directly after the needless niggle from Curry and Itoje. The Boks held their discipline and tried to play positive rugby. Kolisi dominated and should have been MOM. De Allende was huge often popping up strongly when it mattered. Sutherland was the Lions weak link after Furlong played superbly in front row. Only Conan stood up in Lions loosies though. Henshaw was threatening in backs and Biggar and Murray mediocre. Can't remember who else played in Lions backs...
I hope Lions make some changes and try to play expansive rugby and not win by trying to force penalties and cards.
I thought I was neutral at start of series but now swayed by intent to play.
@nzzp said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions II:
If I were the benevolent dictator at world rugby, I'd ban support staff from the field unless the ref calls them on.
O'Keeffe was trying to get them off the field and speed up the game, but those guys were like a swarm of bees to honey. It was like watching a RL game where Langer is always in shot. Ridiculous.
Thought Ben did well. Huge pressure and he handled it without getting excited and followed all protocols.
Boks gave the Lions a bloody nose and rubbed the dirt in their face. The Lions didn't fire a shot at all. Both DeKlerk and Murray are bloody awful halfbacks, aren't they? The game becomes a slugfest with both of them stilfling any kind of momentum and slowing down any kind of bal delivered quickly. They couldn't set a pair of polyester pyjamas on fire let alone a backline. Luckily Pollard did something with the little ball he was allowed to have and Biggar, well he was just Biggar.
Will watch no. 3 with interest though.
@old-samurai-jack said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions II:
Both DeKlerk and Murray are bloody awful halfbacks, aren't they?
If it wasn't for Faf the Boks wouldn't even be able to fire the limited shots they did. I countered about 4 times where Pollard passed. Kick kick kick kick kick kick kick
@nta said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions II:
Springbok bench forwards are all over the Lions, particularly at scrum and maul time. Can't help but think Gatland has missed the boat on some selections.
Is Sutherland really the 2nd best LHP in this squad?
Nope, that's Mako Vunipola. Unfortunately the best LH is still injured.
@nta said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions II:
Springbok bench forwards are all over the Lions, particularly at scrum and maul time. Can't help but think Gatland has missed the boat on some selections.
Is Sutherland really the 2nd best LHP in this squad?
No
@nzzp said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions II:
@kiwiinmelb @nta I get that perspective, but disagree. It's not flair filled, as the offense and defense are so fast to teh breakdown and supporting; technique is top tier. It is a massive tussle, decided by fine margins and occasional brain farts. I've really enjoyed it, love the intensity and the passion. But it's not one to draw in new viewers, that's for sure
If you think that was a good game of rugby you’re a one man band. First half was utterly dreadful. Stop start like gridiron with technical penalties and I hate the tmo protocols now so slow (“back to you on the screen. So just to summarise we have seen…). See soccer and VAR - game flows.
@billy-tell said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions II:
@nzzp said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions II:
@kiwiinmelb @nta I get that perspective, but disagree. It's not flair filled, as the offense and defense are so fast to teh breakdown and supporting; technique is top tier. It is a massive tussle, decided by fine margins and occasional brain farts. I've really enjoyed it, love the intensity and the passion. But it's not one to draw in new viewers, that's for sure
If you think that was a good game of rugby you’re a one man band. First half was utterly dreadful. Stop start like gridiron with technical penalties and I hate the tmo protocols now so slow (“back to you on the screen. So just to summarise we have seen…). See soccer and VAR - game flows.
I loved it, but I think that was out of pure stubbornness. The Lions only comes around once every four years, and I'll be damned if I'll let a dull match cursed with hopelessly unambitious gameplans, shoddy refereeing and riddled with basic errors spoil my enjoyment.
@majorrage said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions II:
Kolbe had his eyes on the ball the entire time
Jesus Christ ?♂️THAT DOESN'T MAKE IT OK!! THATS THE FUCKEN PROBLEM!!
Well played the Bokke. Well deserved winners and in truth the scoreboard was kind to us as the second half could have seen more points given the domination SA showed. A few calls went against us but last week we got the rub, so no real complaints there. Our limited game plan and poor execution coupled with the Bok intensity were the reasons we suffered. We lost the aerial game convincingly and given that WAS pretty much the game, it’s kind of QED. It was not just our poor kicking and chasing, not even the inability of our back 3 to catch a cold but where was our defence for the catcher? SA showed how to marshal a kick chase defence with good, legal screening and the catcher not going past that screen. No complaints about O’Keefe’ officiating but plenty about the use of the TMO and the constant pitch invasions and the continued allowing of the Hydrator in chief coaching his team from the centre of the pitch.
@bones said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions II:
@majorrage said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions II:
Kolbe had his eyes on the ball the entire time
Jesus Christ ?♂️THAT DOESN'T MAKE IT OK!! THATS THE FUCKEN PROBLEM!!
Why not?
BILs changes for next week - apart from a whole new game plan. Wyn Jones if fit with Vunipola on the bench. George to the bench in place of Owens. If Alan-Wyn has anything left in the tank then he starts again with Itoje. Beirne at 6 with Lawes on the bench. Simmonds at 8. Navidi to the bench in place of Faletau. Otherwise no changes. In the backs, we have issues at 9 & 10 and I think the choice of 10 would dictate who plays at 9. I’d like to see Smith with Price but we won’t. Aki for Henshaw. Adams for Watson, Williams for Hogg. VDM stays by the skin of his teeth.
@majorrage said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions II:
@bones said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions II:
@majorrage said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions II:
Kolbe had his eyes on the ball the entire time
Jesus Christ ?♂️THAT DOESN'T MAKE IT OK!! THATS THE FUCKEN PROBLEM!!
Why not?
It's ludicrously reckless, not to mention bullshit. You can't disregard everyone else's safety just because you want to pretend you can only see the ball. Would certainly make for an interesting lineout as you don't even bother to compete and just get the guy at the front to run through the legs of the jumpers as he can't see them.
@bones
People saying "he never took his eyes off the ball", as if that's a defence.
That just confirms it wasn't malicious, but nobody's suggesting that it was.
Not looking where you're running in that kind of situation is reckless.
@gibbonrib said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions II:
That just confirms it wasn't malicious
Does it though? The only reason why you would pretend to only be looking at the ball in that situation, is if you think there's a risk of taking someone out.
Maliciously reckless?
@bones said in Springboks v British & Irish Lions II:
Does it though?
For me, yes.
The counter argument is that you should be looking at whether anyone else might be in the zone. But then are you looking to line them up?
@nta if you glance at the Speedo when you drive, does that mean you're trying to speed?
@bones I guess the bottom line is that it doesn't really matter - these days the rules don't require intent