Pleased we found a way to tough it out
Pressure. In the last couple of years, we've been shit at handling it, played fast and loose and/or made stupid mistakes and lost momentum. But not today. Yeah, we played as poorly as we did against Ireland for much of the match, but we found a way through and that's a big improvement.
Starting off with a bang, we went to absolute mush from minutes 15 to 50. BB was fucking awful with decision making which was even worse, and Havili was shite - and ironically was shite at the things he was supposedly good at and less shite than expected at the things he was supposed to be shite at. Wither ALB? For such an intelligent and calm player, that was his worst game in Black. OK, he's been out for a while and Havili was equally crap, but he's the experienced player and should have taken control. 2/10.
Telea was great. Rock solid, took his chances and wasn't overawed. Clarke struggled and God knows what is going on in his head. He's got so much talent, is great under the high ball, has pace and difficult to bring down, so why doesn't he pin his ears back more often? His defence wasn't all that flash either. No, he was bloody awful.
Never, ever, start Christie again. He's great coming on for the last 20 but he seems to have actually gotten slower. The difference when TJP came on was huge - added a bit of mongrel as well.
Ardie and Paps were superb and Akira had a good first 20 but faded a bit when Scotland were dominating. Sam W was outstanding, I thought, making hit after hit and got his team back on track. He was absolutely immense in defence on the goal-line as well. Didn't see much of Scooter which may or may not be a good thing. The front row was a step down from last week but ramped up when the replacements came on. Both Sami T & Codie Taylor were great and as @bones has said, starting Sami & finishing with Taylor seems the best option.
Overall summary: Brilliant first 15 minutes, a totally shit 50 minutes and a final 15 minutes where the mojo made an appearance again. Not happy with the performance overall, but pretty pleased we found a way to tough it out, calm down, slowly take control and actually win. In a World Cup we need to do this a fair bit. Finally, in may ways it's good we played badly - they'll now go to Twickenham a bit pissed off with their performance
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
The fact is Scotland played well for large parts of the game
After we spotted them 14 points cheers midfield.
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
The fact is Scotland played well for large parts of the game
They sure did. I quite like how they play.
They have a very similar pattern at ruck time to the Boks. They are hard on the ball and if your cleaners are late they were dynamite.
Their attacking pattern have a lot of decoy runners and if you misread you will be burnt.
We got a real roll on in that 15-20 minute period and we nullified their ruck
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
YC
Dumb
That’s the match
You stupid fucking jocks
Watching Beaver on the Stan coverage. Gas he been possessed by Justin Marshall? Trying to convince us that it wasn't a deliberate knock on.
@duke said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
That’s rough for Scotland. In the slow mo he didn’t appear to be even looking at the ball.
Amazing how well he batted the ball away without looking at it.
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@booboo Sam came out of the sheds a little more vocal after a great period by Scotland. And Ardie was too. Also helps in the leadership stakes when your 90 test 1st 5 starts to play with a bit more purpose and not helter skelter
BB kept kicking and for very little reward.
But he started to take on the line which drew in defenders. He was making it too easy for them.
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@duke said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
That’s rough for Scotland. In the slow mo he didn’t appear to be even looking at the ball.
Amazing how well he batted the ball away without looking at it.
Yes from another angle it looked more ah cunning.
@Tim said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
Lienert-Brown fans: he is absolute shit. Should never be anywhere near international rugby. He's slow, he's a bum. Rieko is 100x the player. Deal with it.
He was fine. Better than DH. But certainly not threatening the top XV right now. Hopefully he does put pressure on Reiko next year but I'm very comfortable with the incumbent midfield as it is.
Fyi there are 2 interviews on YouTube with J Barrett and R Ioane on the All Blacks channel. Definitely worth a watch, they've got good banter, a sign they could develop into a pretty decent combination.
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@Bones said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
Perenara's best ever test. Amazing. What a return.
I know it was off the bench, but fuck he was ever present, on the button with his options and no fannying about. Where has this guy been? He was Christie on roids.
It does show you the value of form (and the NPC).
He had a wonderful NPC campaign and played really well for AB XV last week.
With Fakatava almost probably out of RWC contention there is room for a more combative HB in the squad. Perenara knows that spot is up for grabs and played like it. Good on him.
@Tim said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
Lienert-Brown fans: he is absolute shit. Should never be anywhere near international rugby. He's slow, he's a bum. Rieko is 100x the player. Deal with it.
ALB was terrible at 13, but a decided improvement on DH at 12.
@Frye said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@Tim said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
Lienert-Brown fans: he is absolute shit. Should never be anywhere near international rugby. He's slow, he's a bum. Rieko is 100x the player. Deal with it.
He was fine. Better than DH. But certainly not threatening the top XV right now. Hopefully he does put pressure on Reiko next year but I'm very comfortable with the incumbent midfield as it is.
Fyi there are 2 interviews on YouTube with J Barrett and R Ioane on the All Blacks channel. Definitely worth a watch, they've got good banter, a sign they could develop into a pretty decent combination.
Is that you Stephen Donald?
No he wasn’t fine. He made poor reads, lost the ball in contact, fell off tackles.
He did get a little better in the last 15-20, but that doesn’t mean he wasn’t good in the period before.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@booboo Sam came out of the sheds a little more vocal after a great period by Scotland. And Ardie was too. Also helps in the leadership stakes when your 90 test 1st 5 starts to play with a bit more purpose and not helter skelter
Was a little dangled fish hook but he got a bit pushy-shovey a few times. If it was Akira doing that the hate squad would have lost it.
Want to see more composure from him, not just as skipper but as the most experienced guy.
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@Tim said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
Lienert-Brown fans: he is absolute shit. Should never be anywhere near international rugby. He's slow, he's a bum. Rieko is 100x the player. Deal with it.
ALB was terrible at 13, but a decided improvement on DH at 12.
It was interesting seeing the very different formations with Ioane, ALB and Jordie.
Jordie at 2nd 5 with ALB outside him.
ALB closer in and Ioane outside.
Jordie into 1st receiver, Beaudie roaming out back and ALB and Ioane set up close together.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@Frye said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@Tim said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
Lienert-Brown fans: he is absolute shit. Should never be anywhere near international rugby. He's slow, he's a bum. Rieko is 100x the player. Deal with it.
He was fine. Better than DH. But certainly not threatening the top XV right now. Hopefully he does put pressure on Reiko next year but I'm very comfortable with the incumbent midfield as it is.
Fyi there are 2 interviews on YouTube with J Barrett and R Ioane on the All Blacks channel. Definitely worth a watch, they've got good banter, a sign they could develop into a pretty decent combination.
Is that you Stephen Donald?
No he wasn’t fine. He made poor reads, lost the ball in contact, fell off tackles.
He did get a little better in the last 15-20, but that doesn’t mean he wasn’t good in the period before.
Yep.
What was even worse is he's normally a safe, controlled player with good defence. Bloody awful tonight.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@Joans-Town-Jones said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
Yeah this chopping and changing is such a great idea. Fucking change my mind.
Ma'a Nonu played something like 70 tests at 12 and 62 of those were with Conrad Smith. Jordie B has had 2 and looks a million times better than that headless chook Havili. We're 10 tests away from a QF but yeah, keep changing the fucking team.
Since 2015 we've been looking for centers. Hansen fucked the team around all the way up to the SF in 2019. Foster has done the same. Finally find a potential candidate and he won't be played 2 tests in succession.
For all the doom and gloom in this test, the Jocks are gifted a PT (DP was blocked from making a tackle and the ball ingoal makes a huge dogleg to the left, not probable in my book but hey) and Mr Indecisive gift wraps and pass right into the hands of the Jocks.
And what happens if we put all our eggs in the Jordie basket, he gets injured and we don't have back-ups with reasonable experience.?
Experience or talent?
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@duke said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
That’s rough for Scotland. In the slow mo he didn’t appear to be even looking at the ball.
Amazing how well he batted the ball away without looking at it.
Yes from another angle it looked more ah cunning.
Was it you who mentioned the way he was leaning out of the tackle and only turned in to actually tackle once he had completely accidentally spiked the ball upfield?
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@Tim said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
Lienert-Brown fans: he is absolute shit. Should never be anywhere near international rugby. He's slow, he's a bum. Rieko is 100x the player. Deal with it.
ALB was terrible at 13, but a decided improvement on DH at 12.
It was interesting seeing the very different formations with Ioane, ALB and Jordie.
Jordie at 2nd 5 with ALB outside him.
ALB closer in and Ioane outside.
Jordie into 1st receiver, Beaudie roaming out back and ALB and Ioane set up close together.
So basically the ABs were better when BB was nowhere near the important decision-making?
Sounds fair.
@broughie said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@Joans-Town-Jones said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
Yeah this chopping and changing is such a great idea. Fucking change my mind.
Ma'a Nonu played something like 70 tests at 12 and 62 of those were with Conrad Smith. Jordie B has had 2 and looks a million times better than that headless chook Havili. We're 10 tests away from a QF but yeah, keep changing the fucking team.
Since 2015 we've been looking for centers. Hansen fucked the team around all the way up to the SF in 2019. Foster has done the same. Finally find a potential candidate and he won't be played 2 tests in succession.
For all the doom and gloom in this test, the Jocks are gifted a PT (DP was blocked from making a tackle and the ball ingoal makes a huge dogleg to the left, not probable in my book but hey) and Mr Indecisive gift wraps and pass right into the hands of the Jocks.
And what happens if we put all our eggs in the Jordie basket, he gets injured and we don't have back-ups with reasonable experience.?
Experience or talent?
Not a zero sum game. Jordie looks to be a safe option at 12 and we should play him there, but we need a backup and on today's performance it isn't DH.
1.De Groot
2.Samisoni
3.Lomax
4.Whitelock C
5.Retallick
6.Scott Barrett
7.Papalii
8.Savea
9.Smith
10.Mo’unga
11.
12.Jordie
13. Ioane
14.Telea
15. Jordan
I’d have Rieko at 11 if we could find a 13.
So probably Reece to 11 or someone else.
Clarke is shite.
Most all black 11’s of old are in double figures for tries at his amount of caps.
I wouldn’t even have Beaudy in the 23 at the moment.
McKenzie is knocking on the door and I wouldn’t be surprised to see DMAC starting a knockout game at the World Cup at 10.
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@duke said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
That’s rough for Scotland. In the slow mo he didn’t appear to be even looking at the ball.
Amazing how well he batted the ball away without looking at it.
Yes from another angle it looked more ah cunning.
Was it you who mentioned the way he was leaning out of the tackle and only turned in to actually tackle once he had completely accidentally spiked the ball upfield?
Yes, did you see the other angle? It was quite skilful.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@broughie said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@Joans-Town-Jones said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
Yeah this chopping and changing is such a great idea. Fucking change my mind.
Ma'a Nonu played something like 70 tests at 12 and 62 of those were with Conrad Smith. Jordie B has had 2 and looks a million times better than that headless chook Havili. We're 10 tests away from a QF but yeah, keep changing the fucking team.
Since 2015 we've been looking for centers. Hansen fucked the team around all the way up to the SF in 2019. Foster has done the same. Finally find a potential candidate and he won't be played 2 tests in succession.
For all the doom and gloom in this test, the Jocks are gifted a PT (DP was blocked from making a tackle and the ball ingoal makes a huge dogleg to the left, not probable in my book but hey) and Mr Indecisive gift wraps and pass right into the hands of the Jocks.
And what happens if we put all our eggs in the Jordie basket, he gets injured and we don't have back-ups with reasonable experience.?
Experience or talent?
Not a zero sum game. Jordie looks to be a safe option at 12 and we should play him there, but we need a backup and on today's performance it isn't DH.
Laumape would be handy . All we need is a bloke who doesn’t get dragged backwards with every carry.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@Frye said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@Tim said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
Lienert-Brown fans: he is absolute shit. Should never be anywhere near international rugby. He's slow, he's a bum. Rieko is 100x the player. Deal with it.
He was fine. Better than DH. But certainly not threatening the top XV right now. Hopefully he does put pressure on Reiko next year but I'm very comfortable with the incumbent midfield as it is.
Fyi there are 2 interviews on YouTube with J Barrett and R Ioane on the All Blacks channel. Definitely worth a watch, they've got good banter, a sign they could develop into a pretty decent combination.
Is that you Stephen Donald?
No he wasn’t fine. He made poor reads, lost the ball in contact, fell off tackles.
He did get a little better in the last 15-20, but that doesn’t mean he wasn’t good in the period before.
I didn't say he was perfect. He at least didn't throw an awful intercept pass when he had a man free outside ala DH.
Havili is an absolute handbrake at 12. Hopefully Goodhue is fit and firing next year.
@Steve said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
1.De Groot
2.Samisoni
3.Lomax
4.Whitelock C
5.Retallick
6.Scott Barrett
7.Papalii
8.Savea
9.Smith
10.Mo’unga
11.
12.Jordie
13. Ioane
14.Telea
15. JordanI’d have Rieko at 11 if we could find a 13.
So probably Reece to 11 or someone else.
Clarke is shite.
Most all black 11’s of old are in double figures for tries at his amount of caps.I wouldn’t even have Beaudy in the 23 at the moment.
McKenzie is knocking on the door and I wouldn’t be surprised to see DMAC starting a knockout game at the World Cup at 10.
DMac has looked lively against the BaaBaas today. Still has a lot of pluck.
@nostrildamus International rugby is a step up. He is a good, not exceptional, super rugby player.
@broughie said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@nostrildamus International rugby is a step up. He is a good, not exceptional, super rugby player.
ok, it is just we are running out of midfield options.
@Frye said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
Havili is an absolute handbrake at 12.
That's a bit unfair. He's currently more of a landmine.
@Frye said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@Frye said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
@Tim said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
Lienert-Brown fans: he is absolute shit. Should never be anywhere near international rugby. He's slow, he's a bum. Rieko is 100x the player. Deal with it.
He was fine. Better than DH. But certainly not threatening the top XV right now. Hopefully he does put pressure on Reiko next year but I'm very comfortable with the incumbent midfield as it is.
Fyi there are 2 interviews on YouTube with J Barrett and R Ioane on the All Blacks channel. Definitely worth a watch, they've got good banter, a sign they could develop into a pretty decent combination.
Is that you Stephen Donald?
No he wasn’t fine. He made poor reads, lost the ball in contact, fell off tackles.
He did get a little better in the last 15-20, but that doesn’t mean he wasn’t good in the period before.
I didn't say he was perfect. He at least didn't throw an awful intercept pass when he had a man free outside ala DH.
Havili is an absolute handbrake at 12. Hopefully Goodhue is fit and firing next year.
No one is disputing that was a shocking pass.
But you make it sound like it was worse than ALB’s terrible YC offence that also resulted in a PT. Cost us points and player in the bin.
I have said this all along with Havili and this was even when he was playing well for the Crusaders that IMO he is in the ABs because of injury until guys like Goodhue and ALB got right.
Do I think he’s good enough, his best is good enough because he has shown he is a multi-skilled player. But we simply haven’t seen enough of it, so unless he plays more consistent he will only be a back up option - which I guess is why he played today and was on the bench last week and if everyone is fit, IMO won’t make the 23 next week.
@Steve said in All Blacks vs Scotland:
We have bumbled through the last 3 years and only for injuries Foster could still have ignored that Papalii is the best 7, Samisoni is the best Hooker and Jordie is the best 12.
The fat fool.
People have been told off for that and to go to the Foster thread but I think you might be allowed that comment tonight. It was rocks and diamonds tonight.
@nostrildamus agree. We are thin at that position and keep playing utility type players. Hopefully at school boy level and up we are starting to recruit and play a larger straight running 2nd five instead of focusing on utility value and running rugby at all instances. Should be on posters: second coming of Nonu needed, 110 kgs or less need not apply.
Jumbled thoughts:
Great atmosphere, we looked totally asleep for the middle 60mins. Felt we got the worst of the ref decisions and didn't get the favorable bounce of the ball. The entire crowd thought Telea's second try wasn't grounded properly (it was) and the noise in the stadium as Jordie nailed the clutch kick to put us 8 ahead was incredible. Our defence is still so passive. Murrayfield is a great stadium, no bad views even up in the cheap seats where we were. Game really turned when Codie and TJ came on, fair play to both of them - I thought they were past it.
@Bones If Ardie played the game as a second five I have no doubt he would have been good. I don't think he lacks for size. Might be a hungus at times but he is athletic and has the size and height.