Ireland were just better
well that was quite something. Fucking great game. I couldn't watch live, and everything my mates had sent me, i was expecting it to be awful. But it wasn't, the ABs were pretty good, Ireland were just better.
Well done Ireland, what a performance, not just last night, but over the past few weeks. Their tour started so poorly, with those two losses, but they regrouped and just smashed us.
And you know what? I fucking love watching them play. Their short passing attack is beautiful. They get the ball in the hands of their most dangerous players as often as they can. They absolutely smash rucks. They are quick, hard and accurate in the tackle. And their set piece is fucking good.
Also, they are organised, so everyone knows not only their job, but also what everyone else is going to do so they know where to be. And they use depth to their advantage!! Fuck they don't half smash on to the ball.
Deserved series winners, good on them, fucking enjoy the shit out of it, especially the veterans.
The All Blacks
And so to the losers
What can you say? 2nd best again last night. For a team to do so much right at times, but come up with so little? Very disappointing.
The kick, kick, kick stuff is so bad. We get so little out of it, we just keep giving the ball back to Ireland at about half way. The helter skelter, lets go both ways attack is useless.
Hot take time, Aaron Smith is a big part of the problem. Those wide flat passes fired as early as possible very really hit a player to our advantage I think i saw at least 3 occasions where he hit a guy who was just turning around from getting back on side. that player was obviously immediately swallowed. We play flat as fuck so there is no momentum on to the ball. But worst of all is, the helter skleter shit means eventually we run out of players to make a breakdown, and we turn it over.
The backline "attack" is abysmal. It's nothing more inventive than "hands" sometimes with the centre or the 12 standing in front of the intended recipient, but not in such a position that it attracts a defender. Ireland were asked no questions all night. What in the fuck is the point in backing that 13, 11, and 14 and then not giving them an opportunity? Just wasted.
Then we make it worse by sticking Ioane on the tram tracks, and never getting him the ball?! Yet when he hits it closer up he smashes them. No, i know, lets run Savea there, where he is least effective.
The defence is just terrible. Picked apart by the passing. No speed. No ability to put in dominant hits and then slow the ruck. Out wide they are all at sea. Will Jordan has no fucking idea what he is doing defensively. In? Out? Up? hold? no clue.
As or the breakdown. Fuck me dead. Accurate? no. So more numbers? also no. Maybe that's why Smith whips it out of there before thinking, because if he hesitates we'll get smoked on the counter-ruck. I lost count of missed clean out assignments today.
The whole plan is to play fast, one-off running for a few phases, and then kick, or we play that side to side shit. And hope someone breaks a tackle, or a defender makes a mistake. We won't try to create the mistake, we'll just hope it happens. And now we are giving up a heap of points as well, that will fail far more than it works.
So that is how you win every stat and yet still get pretty well beaten.
@Hooroo said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@JC said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Hooroo said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
The lack of a red card in that collision was great. I don’t even like it was yellow.
Not sure I agree. Imagine for a second you’re watching that happen to your son or partner. You’d feel absolutely sick, not just about the immediate injury but potential long term effects. There’s an element of chance in this for sure but you have to make it worth players’ while to put the effort in to change their technique.
I think each was a clear yellow, but the committee reaffirmed with Ta’avao’s ban that red is the correct sanction, so these two must surely have met the same threshold as they resulted in actually injuries.
I’ve watched rugby all my life and my rugby thought process isn’t like that.
If it is foul and intentional, send them. The red last week and this collision were neither of those.
Site and sort after game for those ones. Don’t ruin the game because of a genuine accident
Yeah, I just mentioned this in one of our half a million other threads. I don't know how in both incidents they concluded it was foul play.
@Nepia said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Hooroo said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@JC said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Hooroo said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
The lack of a red card in that collision was great. I don’t even like it was yellow.
Not sure I agree. Imagine for a second you’re watching that happen to your son or partner. You’d feel absolutely sick, not just about the immediate injury but potential long term effects. There’s an element of chance in this for sure but you have to make it worth players’ while to put the effort in to change their technique.
I think each was a clear yellow, but the committee reaffirmed with Ta’avao’s ban that red is the correct sanction, so these two must surely have met the same threshold as they resulted in actually injuries.
I’ve watched rugby all my life and my rugby thought process isn’t like that.
If it is foul and intentional, send them. The red last week and this collision were neither of those.
Site and sort after game for those ones. Don’t ruin the game because of a genuine accident
Yeah, I just mentioned this in one of our half a million other threads. I don't know how in both incidents they concluded it was foul play.
It's a physical game. Accidents happen. Not every collision is the result of foul play. But apparently WR believe that it is. No its not....
@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Outstanding stuff. Great to see J&Ms chicken is still the go to on a night out on Courtney Place. Also surprisingly delicious heated up the next day.
How hammered does Peter O’Mahoney look ?
He deserves it
@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Outstanding stuff. Great to see J&Ms chicken is still the go to on a night out on Courtney Place. Also surprisingly delicious heated up the next day.
How hammered does Peter O’Mahoney look ?
He had 100 years worth of piss to drink
@pakman said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Mrs Meldrew has just removed all throwable objects from the lounge.
There’s still the TV….
Thank fuck we don't have a piano or swimming pool.
Has she put a fresh pack of razor blades in the bathroom?
I don't shave.....
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Luigi said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Great game to watch. NZ response at the beginning of the 2nd half was classically ominous, but Ireland have played the ABs often enough recently to withstand. Tadgh Beirne was huuuuuuge.
All Black losses bring them all out of the woodwork ...
Paging @Thomond78...
@mariner4life Agreed, the big question is what are the Irish doing that we aren't. Clearly the coaching team are very switched on and they have 100% buy in from their players.
Wonder if anyone noticed who had the better points for and against this series? Or for all matches on this tour? ..........................................................................................................................ok, thought not. I guess it reinforces that this Irish team learned from it's mistakes and acclimatised to local conditions, after a very mediocre start
And so to the losers
What can you say? 2nd best again last night. For a team to do so much right at times, but come up with so little? Very disappointing.
The kick, kick, kick stuff is so bad. We get so little out of it, we just keep giving the ball back to Ireland at about half way.
The helter skelter, lets go both ways attack is useless. Hot take time, Aaron Smith is a big part of the problem. Those wide flat passes fired as early as possible very really hit a player to our advantage I think i saw at least 3 occassions where he hit a guy who was just turning around from getting back on side. that player was obviously immediately swallowed.
We play flat as fuck so there is no momentum on to the ball. But worst of all is, the helter skleter shit means eventually we run out of players to make a breakdown, and we turn it over.
The backline "attack" is abismal. It's nothing more inventive than "hands" sometimes with teh centre or the 12 standing in front of the intended recipient, but not in such a position that it attracts a defender. Ireland were asked no questions all night. What in the fuck is the point in backing that 13, 11, and 14 and then not giving them an opportunity? Just wasted.
Then we make it worse by sticking Ioane on the tram tracks, and never getting him the ball?! Yet when he hits it closer up he smashes them. No, i know, lets run Savea there, where he is least effective.
The defense is just terrible. Picked apart by the passing. No speed. No ability to put in dominant hits and then slow the ruck. Out wide they are all at sea. Will Jordan has no fucking idea what he is doing defensively. In? Out? Up? hold? no clue.
As or the breakdown. Fuck me dead. Accurate? no. So more numbers? also no. Maybe that's why Smith whips it out of there before thinking, because if he hesitates we'll get smoked on the counter-ruck. I lost count of missed clean out assignments today.
The whole plan is to play fast, one-off running for a few phases, and then kick, or we play that side to side shit. And hope someone breaks a tackle, or a defender makes a mistake. We won't try to create the mistake, we'll just hope it happens. And now we are giving up a heap of points as well, that will fail far more than it works.
So that is how you win every stat and yet still get pretty well beaten.
@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@mariner4life Agreed, the big question is what are the Irish doing that we aren't. Clearly the coaching team are very switched on and they have 100% buy in from their players.
structure. we are playing without a structure in a kind of "chaos ball" to break the field open, and it's not even close to working. Not least because our 6 of our forwards can't keep up.
and so to the players in black
Bower worked hard but far less prominent than last week
Taylor had a couple of bright moments early, but was gone by the 20 minute mark. Threw poorly. Missed cleanouts. Added nothing more in attack. Cooked
Laulala. It speaks volums that a player as fucking ordinary as this bloke gets to start because he can push a scrum, and the other guy cannot be trusted. We hare fucked at tighthead. Misses tackles. That dumb fucking offload. Gives away penalties. Just useless away from the scrum (where he is nothing more than competent)
Whitelock and Retallick can be grouped. Tried fucking hard all night. But this game plan fucks them completely, they are getting too long in the tooth to keep this up.
Akira was fucking great. Won rucks, won tackles, ran hard, scored a great try. Sticking him out wide is a fucking waste of a player.
Cane is done. Yes he still hits hard. Yes he cleans stuff up. But he is too slow to be a 7. We are suffering at the breakdown because Sam can't get there on either side of the ball. Nothing else he does is so good it makes up for that. He's playing like a small hooker now. It's time.
Savea is all action, all the fucking time. Almost does too much (again, sometimes slow is good too) and should hit it up close to the ruck. But holy shit what a game. Put that man in the 7 shirt
Smith was the same as every week. zipped the ball around, kicked a lot but without us ever getting it back. We are wasting his strength by making it the only option
BBarrett can fuck off. Worst AB on the field. Shit kicks. Shit options. Zero organisation. Irelands 3rd try he went for the intercept and left a gaping hole. Useless.
Havili. Did he play? Predictably offered fucking nothing
Ioane. No chance to attack with the ball because of a shit attack. Dropped passes, turned it over. The biggest symptom of our overall problem. Ireland would find a way to use him.
Reece. Wasted. Chase kicks and never get the ball.
Jordan. Good try. Pretty dangerous. Needs to learn to defend in a pattern
JBarrett. Almost as shit as his brother. Tries hard but creates fucking nothing.
Bench? Well, Mounga came on, but i don't even know who for because all the Barrets and Havili stayed. So what is the point in having him there? RTS got 10 minutes. Papalii got subbed on to his 5m line with an Irish lineout to predictable results. Coles cout counterrucked to turn it over. Ofa gor 4 minutes
It was poorly selected and even worsly used.
We weren't terrible, but if Savea and Akira don't get blood in their nostrils in the 2nd half we probably lose by 20.
The entire coaching staff should be in front of a firing squad. And several players should kiss their top 23 spot goodbye
Congrats to Ireland. Easily the better side across the tour. The one side that genuinely looked coached, they deserved to win.
That being said, by fuck the All Blacks got shafted in the refereeing.
The coaching group has to go. It's not as if we were just bested, we looked like a team with no idea. We looked like we don't have coaches.
Well just got home after being at test, geez it was a bloody good match. Irish were a class above, I thought. Was a bit worried watching warm ups before game when all 3 halfbacks were throwing evey pass from phase etc to second receiver as I had thought Irish had covered that well week before. Sure enough they picked off a couple of intercepts from them. Really thought we needed more 1 of runners etc, and almost at times Ardie seems to be carrying team by himself with go forward ball.
Was a great night anyway, bloody disappointed with result, but apart from that was fun, and forgot how enjoyable it is with opposition supporters etc. lo even if one I was talking to (he was wrapped in Irish flag) said don't tell anyone I really Scots.
I will add Irish had great game management, and had some pretty judicial injuries whenever ABs were attacking in last 20, certainly slowed down momentum quite well.
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@pakman said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Mrs Meldrew has just removed all throwable objects from the lounge.
There’s still the TV….
Thank fuck we don't have a piano or swimming pool.
Has she put a fresh pack of razor blades in the bathroom?
I don't shave.....
Exactly!
@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Well just got home after being at test, geez it was a bloody good match. Irish were a class above, I thought. Was a bit worried watching warm ups before game when all 3 halfbacks were throwing evey pass from phase etc to second receiver as I had thought Irish had covered that well week before. Sure enough they picked off a couple of intercepts from them. Really thought we needed more 1 of runners etc, and almost at times Ardie seems to be carrying team by himself with go forward ball.
Was a great night anyway, bloody disappointed with result, but apart from that was fun, and forgot how enjoyable it is with opposition supporters etc. lo even if one I was talking to (he was wrapped in Irish flag) said don't tell anyone I really Scots.I will add Irish had great game management, and had some pretty judicial injuries whenever ABs were attacking in last 20, certainly slowed down momentum quite well.
Despite all the enjoyment you clearly had, do you think Foster should be replaced?
@Frank said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Well just got home after being at test, geez it was a bloody good match. Irish were a class above, I thought. Was a bit worried watching warm ups before game when all 3 halfbacks were throwing evey pass from phase etc to second receiver as I had thought Irish had covered that well week before. Sure enough they picked off a couple of intercepts from them. Really thought we needed more 1 of runners etc, and almost at times Ardie seems to be carrying team by himself with go forward ball.
Was a great night anyway, bloody disappointed with result, but apart from that was fun, and forgot how enjoyable it is with opposition supporters etc. lo even if one I was talking to (he was wrapped in Irish flag) said don't tell anyone I really Scots.I will add Irish had great game management, and had some pretty judicial injuries whenever ABs were attacking in last 20, certainly slowed down momentum quite well.
Despite all the enjoyment you clearly had, do you think Foster should be replaced?
Buggered if I know, I do know somethings have to change, as there seemed to be not a lot of commitment (they seemed flat as) or something in first half, So whatever or whoever will be the answer will I hope be decided by someone who can do something about it!
@Bovidae said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
I went to 2 games on tour and the team in black won both of them. NZR should have bought me a ticket for Wellington.
I had one of each mate, and ended up with a spare ticket last night (sister had covid) you should of bloody told me and we could of had a win!!!!Lol
@Tim whats worse (for us) is how slow they started the movement due to us turning the scrum and JGP having to pivot around the back of thier scrum to get back on track, yet we still allowed them to get well over the gainline, defence was, as always, passive AF
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
The entire coaching staff should be in front of a firing squad. And several players should kiss their top 23 spot goodbye
First para: agree
Second para: front row, yes. Others? Cane? Backline Barretts?
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
The entire coaching staff should be in front of a firing squad. And several players should kiss their top 23 spot goodbye
First para: agree
Second para: front row, yes. Others? Cane? Backline Barretts?
No Bower stays for sure
Taylor yes.
Fuck knows at tighthead
Retallick going down is a blessing because a new lock has to play
Cane, sadly (and the mafia will hang me as a heretic) yes.
The Barretts are obviously talented but I don't know where to play them?
Havili should be cut from the squad
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
The entire coaching staff should be in front of a firing squad. And several players should kiss their top 23 spot goodbye
First para: agree
Second para: front row, yes. Others? Cane? Backline Barretts?No Bower stays for sure
Fuck knows at tighthead
Retallick going down is a blessing because a new lock has to play
Cane, sadly (and the mafia will hang me as a heretic) yes.
The Barretts are obviously talented but I don't know where to play them?
Havili should be cut from the squad
Oh yeah forgot Havili.
And yes Bower has played well. Although frankly, the rest of the front row selections were uninspiring across the board.
(Started on a wider whinge but was not making enough sense ... just hoping this nightmare will end... )
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
The entire coaching staff should be in front of a firing squad. And several players should kiss their top 23 spot goodbye
First para: agree
Second para: front row, yes. Others? Cane? Backline Barretts?No Bower stays for sure
Taylor yes.
Fuck knows at tighthead
Retallick going down is a blessing because a new lock has to play
Cane, sadly (and the mafia will hang me as a heretic) yes.
The Barretts are obviously talented but I don't know where to play them?
Havili should be cut from the squad
We had 4 fullbacks in our backline ( Havili, Jordan, 2 Barrett’s - BB is much better at fullback, JB needs to play at 2nd all the time if he wants to be a 2nd ) last night, a wing playing centre ( by his natural instincts - pass the ball Reiko ) and a league player learning his trade in reserves. Last week we started with 3 sevens. We are not that so good that can do this anymore. We need players to be better at their core skills - so it would help if they played in their test match positions regularly, and we selected them for demonstrating those skills e.g defence, it’s 50% of the game, or in our casecloser to 65% given we kick our possession away aimlessly.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Fuck it's a stretch to blame that on the front row alone! There are a huge number of people at fault for that. Look at the numbers they were left with.
And then BB with the dumb ass hero play
Yeah during live play I couldn’t understand why Cane comes from the openside and sprints across when we had enough cover - blindside (Akira) plus 1 lock (Whitelock) and the number 8 (Ardie).
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Cane comes from the openside
Yeah, that was a real fuckup from him there.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
The entire coaching staff should be in front of a firing squad. And several players should kiss their top 23 spot goodbye
First para: agree
Second para: front row, yes. Others? Cane? Backline Barretts?
Cane, sadly (and the mafia will hang me as a heretic) yes.
No they won’t, we watched the same as you, previously he stepped up internationally, not this time.
@Bovidae said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Havili was caught in no-man's land for a couple of the Irish tries.
As anonymous a game as it's possible to have
@Bovidae several of our players didn’t read the decoy runners well and it cost us.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Bovidae several of our players didn’t read the decoy runners well and it cost us.
This ball v man thing o'gara talks about intrigues me