Foster was always a punchline
As we have some more overseas posters and readers at the moment, it's important for them to know just how lowly Foster is rated in NZ. During his time in charge of the Chiefs there was a running joke about him getting the AB head coach role, as it would be such an outrageous choice given how poor he is. Another coach that was mentioned in this running joke was Mark Hammett who made an absolute mess of the Hurricanes during his time there.
Then he got given an assistant coach role for the ABs, a baffling promotion given his record to date. That running joke actually continued even after this - "imagine if he got promoted to head coach!".
Then after we got bundled out of the 2019 RWC, NZR not only decided to go for continuity by selecting a new head coach from within the existing coaching group, they chose the guy that was so bad as a head coach he was a running joke to a lot of NZ rugby fans.
Everyone at the time was stunned, and the way the ABs are playing now is absolutely no surprise. We knew we were in for a rough few years, but that doesn't make it any easier to take.
The only defence of Foster has been "maybe he's improved since his disastrous stint with the Chiefs". But there was no evidence to suggest he had, because he hadn't been a head coach since then! If he had improved then he should have taken a SR team again and demonstrated that.
Giving him the reins for the ABs was probably the worst decision I've ever seen a professional sporting organisation make, and the ABs aren't just any organisation, they are historically the most successful sports team on the planet.
The damage this is doing to the AB brand in the professional era can't really be overstated. We are still blessed with incredibly talented players, but without a top class coach we are becoming easy beats to the other Tier 1 teams who play with actual structure.
It's depressing times for us AB fans.
@Chester-Draws it will get worse, we have 2 tests in SA next up...we are looking down the barrell of 1 from after that at the moment.
In the presser after the game he said we were more bothered by thier linespeed than previously? NH sides and our linespeed has been an issue for a while.
@taniwharugby said in Foster must go:
@Kirwan you'd have to think if Foster has any self awareness he must be considering if he can continue?
It must be massively stressful for him and his family, didn't Henry's wife talk about the shit they went through.
I feel for him in a way, circumstances saw him raised above his station, I can understand he thought he had it in him, and convinced other he had it in him, evidence now says the opposite, no shame in him accepting that and stepping down...unless he isn't considering it...
Last time I remember this sort of heat was Hart after that loss in the WC. The public wanted his head from memory.
@MrDenmore said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Wasn’t Foster supposed to hold a media conference this morning? I thought it started at 0900 NZT
If Foster planned it it’s no surprise it didn’t work out.
@JC said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@MrDenmore said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Wasn’t Foster supposed to hold a media conference this morning? I thought it started at 0900 NZT
If Foster planned it it’s no surprise it didn’t work out.
Probably still busy with breakfast
#fosterfatjoke
@chimoaus said in Foster must go:
@taniwharugby said in Foster must go:
@Kirwan you'd have to think if Foster has any self awareness he must be considering if he can continue?
It must be massively stressful for him and his family, didn't Henry's wife talk about the shit they went through.
I feel for him in a way, circumstances saw him raised above his station, I can understand he thought he had it in him, and convinced other he had it in him, evidence now says the opposite, no shame in him accepting that and stepping down...unless he isn't considering it...
Last time I remember this sort of heat was Hart after that loss in the WC. The public wanted his head from memory.
Someone even spat at his racehorse. Fozz is getting off a little easier
@canefan said in Foster must go:
@chimoaus said in Foster must go:
@taniwharugby said in Foster must go:
@Kirwan you'd have to think if Foster has any self awareness he must be considering if he can continue?
It must be massively stressful for him and his family, didn't Henry's wife talk about the shit they went through.
I feel for him in a way, circumstances saw him raised above his station, I can understand he thought he had it in him, and convinced other he had it in him, evidence now says the opposite, no shame in him accepting that and stepping down...unless he isn't considering it...
Last time I remember this sort of heat was Hart after that loss in the WC. The public wanted his head from memory.
Someone even spat at his racehorse. Fozz is getting off a little easier
Yeah all those “Guilty” headlines were an absolute embarrassment, fucken hell New Zealand, grow up ( which to some extent seems to have happened )
@Billy-Tell said in Foster must go:
@Machpants said in Foster must go:
@Billy-Tell said in Foster must go:
When was the last time a coach of a major team (all sports) resigned without being pushed/fired??
Did Wayne smith resign?
Of course he did, he has both self awareness and honour
From memory it was more he had self-doubts, no?
Yeah.
IIRC he asked NZRU to reassess and reaffirm him.
NZRU took that as he wasn't committed and sure of himself.
And appointed Mitch.
@booboo said in Foster must go:
@Billy-Tell said in Foster must go:
@Machpants said in Foster must go:
@Billy-Tell said in Foster must go:
When was the last time a coach of a major team (all sports) resigned without being pushed/fired??
Did Wayne smith resign?
Of course he did, he has both self awareness and honour
From memory it was more he had self-doubts, no?
Yeah.
IIRC he asked NZRU to reassess and reaffirm him.
NZRU took that as he wasn't committed and sure of himself.
And appointed Mitch.
I find it hard to mention Smith and Foster in the same breath. I guess apart from the ABs they have the Chiefs in common. One guy won a SR with the Chiefs and the other guy didn't...
I think he will go.
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NZR have some cash floating around as a result of Silverlake deal. If Foster needs a golden handshake he can get one.
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Having sold part of their commercial arm they are now accountable to their investment partners - morally if not legally.
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It's just too obvious that Foster is not the man for the job. Anyone can see that now. Razor on the other hand has an extraordinary record.
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Foster is unlikely to want to continue given all the vitriol that is coming his way now.
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Plumtree was shell shocked in his half time interview which was a terrible look.
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NZR have been here before in 1998. They made.the wrong call that year and won't again.
@No-Quarter pretty much nailed it there. Based on his CV I can't remember a less worthy AB coach. That is an indictment on those who chose him
@Billy-Tell said in Foster must go:
@Machpants said in Foster must go:
@Billy-Tell said in Foster must go:
When was the last time a coach of a major team (all sports) resigned without being pushed/fired??
Did Wayne smith resign?
Of course he did, he has both self awareness and honour
From memory it was more he had self-doubts, no?
I remember the moment when Wayne Smiths tenure ad head coach became untenable.
He was in an interview with Murray Deaker after a defeat and Murray asked him if he was going to continue as All Black coach. Smith said words to the effect of "I am not sure if I want to or should".
He stepped down a while after.
I take it from that He was more comfortable in an assistant role. Big respect to him to be able to identify that.
@Damo said in Will Foster go?:
I think he will go.
NZR have some cash floating around as a result of Silverlake deal. If Foster needs a golden handshake he can get one.
Having sold part of their commercial arm they are now accountable to their investment partners - morally if not legally.
It's just too obvious that Foster is not the man for the job. Anyone can see that now. Razor on the other hand has an extraordinary record.
Foster is unlikely to want to continue given all the vitriol that is coming his way now.
Plumtree was shell shocked in his half time interview which was a terrible look.
NZR have been here before in 1998. They made.the wrong call that year and won't again.
Wait, did the NZRFU accept the Silverlake deal?!?
@Damo said in Foster must go:
@Billy-Tell said in Foster must go:
@Machpants said in Foster must go:
@Billy-Tell said in Foster must go:
When was the last time a coach of a major team (all sports) resigned without being pushed/fired??
Did Wayne smith resign?
Of course he did, he has both self awareness and honour
From memory it was more he had self-doubts, no?
I remember the moment when Wayne Smiths tenure ad head coach became untenable.
He was in an interview with Murray Deaker after a defeat and Murray asked him if he was going to continue as All Black coach. Smith said words to the effect of "I am not sure if I want to or should".
He stepped down a while after.
I take it from that He was more comfortable in an assistant role. Big respect to him to be able to identify that.
Greatest AB assistant ever. Not a bad consolation
Maybe getting Schmidt on board was a sign NZR saw this coming and the wheels are/were in motion for when this happened.
Haha, NZR with foresight...
I see nothing in the media about any special pressers...
When does Fozzie name his TRC squad, guess they have until that squad needs to be named to make the decision...
@canefan said in Will Foster go?:
@Damo said in Will Foster go?:
I think he will go.
NZR have some cash floating around as a result of Silverlake deal. If Foster needs a golden handshake he can get one.
Having sold part of their commercial arm they are now accountable to their investment partners - morally if not legally.
It's just too obvious that Foster is not the man for the job. Anyone can see that now. Razor on the other hand has an extraordinary record.
Foster is unlikely to want to continue given all the vitriol that is coming his way now.
Plumtree was shell shocked in his half time interview which was a terrible look.
NZR have been here before in 1998. They made.the wrong call that year and won't again.
Wait, did the NZRFU accept the Silverlake deal?!?
I think so, unless I am imagining things.
Google search confirms it was accepted. Not sure of timings though in terms of money changing hands, but that hardly matters.
Another thing ill add which I think hasn't helped is these Japan sabbaticals.
Adds to the temporary feel of the team . Lads fucking off for a year or two, their replacements not knowing if they own the jersey or are keeping it warm. The incumbents coming back underdone and or shadows of their former selves.
If you want to leave and make easy money in Japan, fuck off and don't come back.
@Tim said in Foster must go:
I'd really like to think it means something. But the cynic in me thinks the comms team are just working on some "holding lines"...
@canefan the one from last night (was listening to it this morning) I think the first question was about his.coaching.and he said he only wanted to talk about the game (which was fair enough, even if he knew that was all they will want to talk about)
He sounded broken though.
@canefan said in Foster must go:
@Tim said in Foster must go:
They don't want him to field a flood of questions about quitting
Not while he is negotiating terms of surrender anyway.
Rugby: When you accept mediocrity, this is what happens
Analysis - An attitude of mediocrity has got the All Blacks to where they are now: losing four of their last five tests and a solid case for the worst All Black side ever, Jamie Wall writes.
@MrDenmore said in Foster must go:
Sounds to me like the lawyers are arguing over the wording of the resignation statement and contract cancellation
Yep. Very plausible.
That article above was good reading.
I think obviously the current coaching team has to bear some of the blame - there is a lot of talent there and making it all point in the same direction is their fucking job, really. Not like basic skills are lacking.
However, I think in a way Steve Hansen got the golden spot, but was also part of the problem. He was given a very good core of hard-nosed players and just had to make sure things ticked along. IMHO during that time, a form of arrogance entered the AB culture (moreso at the player level, not the management) that was based on the fact that they were winning games simply by scoring more than the opposition.
Sounds obvious, but when your entire game plan is "Beaudy puts in a kick that bounces 40cm from touch then snaps back straight into his hands 5m laterally for him to score" you're going to struggle at some point. When you can recover a deficit simply by scoring a couple of quick tries off individual talent, it masks the defensive issues that may have forced you into that situation.
I equate it to the Wallabies around the turn of the century: when your back line is that fucking good, finding great props in a barely-contested scrum environment isn't a priority.
We can talk all we want about who has the better players, but who has the better team is more important in a team sport. Duh.
"We shouldn't lose to Ireland" is actually problematic thinking.
@NTA Agree totally. They started believing in their own myth and spent too long looking at their own highlight reels. Some reflection needed. And haircuts all around
@NTA said in Foster must go:
"We shouldn't ose to Ireland" is actually problematic thinking.
Rught now we are looking for ways not to lose, rather than how can we win.
@taniwharugby said in Foster must go:
@NTA said in Foster must go:
"We shouldn't ose to Ireland" is actually problematic thinking.
Rught now we are looking for ways not to lose, rather than how can we win.
I think it is a scale of extremes, formed by the rugby culture from top to bottom when it comes to the ABs:
Winning is expected. Winning is usually fairly easy - particularly the decade after RWC2007 when the line was drawn in the sand.
As a result, any loss is met by denial ("you weren't better, we just played shit") or excuses (e.g. Barret's red card in Perth), and an almost childish urge to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
There isn't much room in the middle for rational thought. Just my observation.
@NTA Partially right in your observations but we at least can now acknowledge and (almost) accept when we get beaten by better teams on the day eg England tonking the ABs in the last World Cup. What sticks in the craw more than anything is the continual usage of gameplans that have been proven not to work. In times past if things weren't working you had astute rugby brains (Graham Mourie just as one example) on the field that could see that and changed things accordingly. Nowadays Captains seem to rely solely on the instructions coming down via radio from the coaches box and conveyed by the water runners.
Surely players on the field have better "feeling" on how opposition players and tactics are working and can sense minute things like marginal dropping off in speed levels of players as they every so slightly tire much better than the bank of computers that coaches seem to place 100% faith in can ever do. Ditto for members of their own team.
@KiwiMurph said in Foster must go:
Analysis - An attitude of mediocrity has got the All Blacks to where they are now: losing four of their last five tests and a solid case for the worst All Black side ever, Jamie Wall writes.
Shit that's a great article.
Reminds me when I lived in Oslo and the public transport system was a sick joke. There were continual delays and cancellations (which was no fun when it's minus farking 10) and shitty antiquated equipment. Rarely a day went by without some epic fuckup. Yet Norwegians being a passive bunch just accepted it and philosophically said they'd just wait for the next one and those responsible deflected or chided the people complaining because there were other countries that had much worse problems. And that of course was the reason things were so shitty. Zero standards, zero expectations and zero accountability. Eventually things got so bad that they had to do something and it appears they now have their shit together. Hopefully NZ does the same but if my Norwegian experiences are anything to go by things will have to hit absolutely rock bottom before these arrogant cnuts pull their fingers out.
Quote from Mark Robinson today from NZ Herald article
“Our focus now is to work with Ian and his team to understand thoroughly in advance of the Rugby Championship what is needed to improve performance and where to from here. We will begin this work immediately."
From that It seems we are stuck with Foster for the Rugby championship at least.
@Chris said in Foster must go:
Quote from Mark Robinson today from NZ Herald article
“Our focus now is to work with Ian and his team to understand thoroughly in advance of the Rugby Championship what is needed to improve performance and where to from here. We will begin this work immediately."
From that It seems we are stuck with Foster for the Rugby championship at least.
Robinson can bugger off too
@Chris said in Foster must go:
Quote from Mark Robinson today from NZ Herald article
“Our focus now is to work with Ian and his team to understand thoroughly in advance of the Rugby Championship what is needed to improve performance and where to from here. We will begin this work immediately."
From that It seems we are stuck with Foster for the Rugby championship at least.
That's not how I read that at all. It sounds very much like an immediate and urgent performance review.
That's exactly what is required and it may end up with change or it may not (I think it will).
I know everyone would have been happy with some gallows being wheeled out in the stadium but I think Kieran Read was a sane voice in all the noise last night.
@Tim said in Foster must go:
Utter cowardice that he wouldn’t face even our tame journos. This has been a twenty year tradition, another thing that Foster the fat fluffybunny has shat on
@Crucial said in Foster must go:
@Chris said in Foster must go:
Quote from Mark Robinson today from NZ Herald article
“Our focus now is to work with Ian and his team to understand thoroughly in advance of the Rugby Championship what is needed to improve performance and where to from here. We will begin this work immediately."
From that It seems we are stuck with Foster for the Rugby championship at least.
That's not how I read that at all. It sounds very much like an immediate and urgent performance review.
That's exactly what is required and it may end up with change or it may not (I think it will).
I know everyone would have been happy with some gallows being wheeled out in the stadium but I think Kieran Read was a sane voice in all the noise last night.
We will see if you are right or it is just more smoke and mirrors to deflect any blame.