Blues 2021 SRA ratings

the blues need to find a backline and stick to it. the Plummer in 12 idea and even piriofeta in 15 has not worked.

@mackerzzzz said in Blues 2021:

the blues need to find a backline and stick to it. the Plummer in 12 idea and even piriofeta in 15 has not worked.

There best backline for me:

9. Nock
10. Black
11. Clarke/ or Lam
12. Faiane
13. Ioane
14. Heem
15. Sullivan

@mackerzzzz said in Blues 2021:

@mackerzzzz said in Blues 2021:

the blues need to find a backline and stick to it. the Plummer in 12 idea and even piriofeta in 15 has not worked.

There best backline for me:

9. Nock
10. Black
11. Clarke/ or Lam
12. Faiane
13. Ioane
14. Heem
15. Sullivan

Don't kind 14 and 15.

For me, swap 10 BB, 14 Lam and 15 JB and it's all good

@duluth Mark Telea back on the left wing? He was way better on the left wing than on the right last year, but got shifted to the right because of Caleb.

Lam played on the left wing in pre-season and played left wing off the bench against the Canes, so he's an option there.

overall impression I get is the Blues have talent, not always in the right position, but skill-wise and tactically have stalled or gone backwards.
That suggests limitations in coaching.

@nostrildamus said in SRA Round 10: Blues v Chiefs:

overall impression I get is the Blues have talent, not always in the right position, but skill-wise and tactically have stalled or gone backwards.
That suggests limitations in coaching.

The talent is actually what is obscuring the other issues in a way. In a number of Blues games they give the overall impression of being rabble but then you look at the scoreboard and they are performing as well as the more organised looking opposition. They are second highest on the try tally, top in the metres carried tally and offloads, yet bottom in the defenders beaten ranks.
Opposition teams have to work hard to score as well.
However something just doesn't seem right. It could be just a confidence/headspace thing. Visible frustration from coaches is usually a good indicator that the players aren't following the plans or that they aren't executing as well as they train.
Personnel clarity from coaches hasn't helped but is that desperate attempts to get players out there that will follow instructions?

@nostrildamus said in SRA Round 10: Blues v Chiefs:

overall impression I get is the Blues have talent, not always in the right position, but skill-wise and tactically have stalled or gone backwards.
That suggests limitations in coaching.

/shrugs. I'd agree, if you hadn't seen major improvements in the last couple of years under Leon. What I think we're lacking is leadership and rugby nous out there. BB probably papered over those cracks last year with confidence from fullback, and you saw it losing Parsons and then Tuipolotu and Robinson this year. We didn't have leaders out there for most of the season, and we lacked the rugby IQ to really drive the team into the right places.

Three good games, followed by 5 poor ones. Hopefully SRTT gives the team a chance to get some confidence, hit their straps and work their butts off. I'm still reasonably confident about our medium term future - we're attracting and keepign decent players, we've got a decent coach, and we are miles away from the rabble we had in the past.

@nzzp said in SRA Round 10: Blues v Chiefs:

@nostrildamus said in SRA Round 10: Blues v Chiefs:

overall impression I get is the Blues have talent, not always in the right position, but skill-wise and tactically have stalled or gone backwards.
That suggests limitations in coaching.

/shrugs. I'd agree, if you hadn't seen major improvements in the last couple of years under Leon. What I think we're lacking is leadership and rugby nous out there. BB probably papered over those cracks last year with confidence from fullback, and you saw it losing Parsons and then Tuipolotu and Robinson this year. We didn't have leaders out there for most of the season, and we lacked the rugby IQ to really drive the team into the right places.

Three good games, followed by 5 poor ones. Hopefully SRTT gives the team a chance to get some confidence, hit their straps and work their butts off. I'm still reasonably confident about our medium term future - we're attracting and keepign decent players, we've got a decent coach, and we are miles away from the rabble we had in the past.

I agree regards overall improvements. Then we only differ on skills. I'm not saying he's a bad coach, fundamentally, but they need to consistently get to the next stage, and there needs to be leadership and rugby nous in the backs (and replacement forwards).
My suggestion (and having BB at 15 is too far from the action for this) is at 10 or 12 a genuine, intelligent, astute playmaker.

Oh and the 9-10 weekly lolly scrambles aren't helping. Alternate pairings, not just position.

@nostrildamus said in SRA Round 10: Blues v Chiefs:

10 or 12 a genuine, intelligent, astute playmaker

this looks like the key

based on watching last year, and the highlights and threads for this year, the difference between winning and losing SRA is having a guy who can break a game open touch the ball a lot.

well, damn.

Just wrote a long post on 2021 so far, and it got lost. Unless the mods can work some magic, you get the 30 second version, not the 500 word monster.

Tight 5 A- didn't dominate when they should have
Loosies A outstanding depth, consistently good
Halfbacks D poor selections, poor consistency, etc
10s D didn't do nearly enough to steer the fatties around
Midfield C Rieko B+, everyone else at 12 D. Didn't do enough offensively, defence was OK
back 3 D. didn't create much at all. Defensively OK. not exciting enough. workrate coudl be better.
Coaching C. Did enough in the forwards, but backs were poor. Tactics were average. needs to get confidence back into the team and support some folk with rugby IQ to make decisions out there

@Duluth thanks for rescuing the rogue electrons

@nzzp Think it just got confused as some posts were moved

@nzzp Back 3 D
Workrate too low, finishing too low, creation too low. Defence OK. Didn't create much at all, or feel super dangerous. Shut down consistently.

on the above

Was Reiko responsible for some of this,Going by himself too much not looking to create space for the outsides.When Reiko gets the ball his first instinct is a wings mind set Run without looking wide the cut back inside is a wingers instinct to link up and not have the touchline as an extra defender.

Or is Reiko a product of what is happening inside from 9 to 12, 10 & 12 Drifting to Reiko taking the defence with them and leaving him no options.

@chris I don't think you can lay the blame at the feet of Rieko. I'm thinking of a back 3 that gets back and counterattacks strongly, returns kicks well, kicks well for territory.

Perofeta was solid at times doing some of those, but frankly I expected more from those lads. Rieko wasn't amazing yet, but solid enough with distribution.

@nzzp said in Blues 2021:

@chris I don't think you can lay the blame at the feet of Rieko. I'm thinking of a back 3 that gets back and counterattacks strongly, returns kicks well, kicks well for territory.

Perofeta was solid at times doing some of those, but frankly I expected more from those lads. Rieko wasn't amazing yet, but solid enough with distribution.

My other point is Reiko a product of what is happening from 9 to 12,

@chris

@chris said in Blues 2021:

@nzzp said in Blues 2021:

@chris I don't think you can lay the blame at the feet of Rieko. I'm thinking of a back 3 that gets back and counterattacks strongly, returns kicks well, kicks well for territory.

Perofeta was solid at times doing some of those, but frankly I expected more from those lads. Rieko wasn't amazing yet, but solid enough with distribution.

My other point is Reiko a product of what is happening from 9 to 12,

2/8/9/10 ... and then 12

Seriously, though, I think Rieko's B+ and knocking on the door of the ABs. He brings solid defence and a speed opportunity that is rare. He's on the way up. Distribution took a step up again, and I'd say is one of the easier things for a good coaching group to keep improving. If you have to trade off an inexperienced 12 or 13 at the top level, I prefer ALB/RIoane to Havili/ALB... but ultimately it's up to the coaches.

@nzzp said in Blues 2021:

/shrugs. I'd agree, if you hadn't seen major improvements in the last couple of years under Leon. What I think we're lacking is leadership and rugby nous out there. BB probably papered over those cracks last year with confidence from fullback, and you saw it losing Parsons and then Tuipolotu and Robinson this year. We didn't have leaders out there for most of the season, and we lacked the rugby IQ to really drive the team into the right places.

Tuipulotu was missed in the second half of the season.

The Blues conceded about the same number of penalties/turnovers as the opposition. For whatever reason the timing of them hurt really them in certain games. Sotutu's yellow or Papali'i's drop against the Highlanders for instance.

Second best team on points scored, second best on points conceded. The decision making is just slightly down on 2020.. improving that, plus a couple of selection changes should have a big impact

@nzzp said in Blues 2021:

ALB/RIoane

It went well in the North/South match. Shame we didn't see it more

@chris-b this is what I don’t get. Why would Enari be willing to stay at the Crusaders when he’s behind two other halfbacks. The Crusaders are really good at keeping guys in their squad even when they aren’t getting a run. Surely he will be looking elsewhere for next year, Blues being the obvious choice if there is room. Landers are sorted at halfback, the Canes are looking good there with Roigard coming through and the possibility of Perenara returning. The Chiefs are solid without being spectacular, so it really only leaves the Blues or overseas as a real option for Enari going forward.

@duluth RIoane isn’t a centre for christ sake. He doesn’t pass the ball. Just look at how ineffective Caleb Clarke has been all year because of Ioane’s inability to turn his blinkers off. I wouldn’t even have Ioane in the AB 23 to be quite honest.

@canes4life said in Blues 2021:

RIoane isn’t a centre for christ sake. He doesn’t pass the ball.

Yes he is. Yes he does.

@duluth no he isn’t and no he doesn’t. He lacks the intelligence and skill set required to be an international caliber centre.

Every time he makes a break he hardly ever looks to his outsides because he has the wingers mentality of having a crack himself. He’s been doing it all season.

By all means though the Blues should keep playing him there, they are less dangerous because of it.

10 passes and 5 runs in the weekend. 8 passes 11 runs the week before that. He passes.

@duluth pointing out the stats against a weak Chiefs side probably isn’t the best example. He never does this when he comes up against a good defensive structure. The sign that a centre is doing their proper job is when the wingers stats are through the roof. The fact the Blues have the best winger in the country and he’s been a shadow of his test form is saying something.

Ioane should just bite the bullet and go back to the wing where he is far more deadly IMO.

@duluth said in Blues 2021:

10 passes and 5 runs in the weekend. 8 passes 11 runs the week before that. He passes.

You'd have to ignore all the times he passes (some for trys, like the Sullivan example I posted earlier) to think he doesn't pass. Bit of a weird opinion to have.

@canes4life

He's struggled with making good decisions about whether to pass or hold but that doesn't mean he doesn't pass. In a few situations this year he passed when he shouldn't have, but that's part and parcel of learning to be a good 13. He has speed and can pass well, so it's just learning about when to throw the pass which is hi big work-on (as well as a few defensive issues, where he is also improving).

@canes4life said in Blues 2021:

@duluth no he isn’t and no he doesn’t. He lacks the intelligence and skill set required to be an international caliber centre.

Every time he makes a break he hardly ever looks to his outsides because he has the wingers mentality of having a crack himself. He’s been doing it all season.

By all means though the Blues should keep playing him there, they are less dangerous because of it.

He passes. Mostly very well too.

He is obviously trying to take a gap or skin someone when he doesn't. If there is a criticism it would be the decision making, just like most mid fielders. Laumape misses a few opportunities to pass as well.

@gt12 obviously he passes the ball, what I’m getting at is the effectiveness of his passes and setting up players around him, most importantly his wingers. The fact that Caleb Clarke (one of the most destructive wingers in the game at the moment) hasn’t really made a mark on this competition through lack of ball tells me something.

Maybe I’m wrong, maybe it’s a tactical decision by the Blues not to feed their wingers. Odd to me though when you have someone like Caleb out there waiting to cause havoc.

OR maybe I’m wrong again and it’s actually Caleb not looking for work. I just feel if the Blues are going to get to that next level they must get that area right in their game because both players are potent and the Blues could make the very best teams look silly if they can sort it.

@canes4life said in Blues 2021:

@duluth RIoane isn’t a centre for christ sake. He doesn’t pass the ball. Just look at how ineffective Caleb Clarke has been all year because of Ioane’s inability to turn his blinkers off. I wouldn’t even have Ioane in the AB 23 to be quite honest.

I think Clarkes problem had been he hasn't injected himself anywhere in backline.

@canes4life said in Blues 2021:

Maybe I’m wrong

Yes

@dan54 said in Blues 2021:

I think Clarkes problem had been he hasn't injected himself anywhere in backline.

It looks like he has tried. The quote from Caleb himself says a lot about how heavily he is marked now. When he moves he is being watched very closely, and he is most likely not just outside Rieko, so blaming Caleb's lack of potency this year on Rieko seems wrong.

@snowy still, Ioane is a hell of a long way off being an All Black centre, let alone a good one. I’d put my money on Clarke being more effective if he had someone with a few more brain cells creating space for him. Ioane is too much of a show pony.

@snowy said in Blues 2021:

@dan54 said in Blues 2021:

I think Clarkes problem had been he hasn't injected himself anywhere in backline.

It looks like he has tried. The quote from Caleb himself says a lot about how heavily he is marked now. When he moves he is being watched very closely, and he is most likely not just outside Rieko, so blaming Caleb's lack of potency this year on Rieko seems wrong.

People seem to have short memories too. It's just a couple of games ago he looked sharp against the Highlanders and was popping up all over the field.

@canes4life said in Blues 2021:

@snowy still, Ioane is a hell of a long way off being an All Black centre, let alone a good one. I’d put my money on Clarke being more effective if he had someone with a few more brains creating space for him.

He might be close to being selected as an AB 13 because we are running out of options.

As for having brains (a harsh term), that's mostly experience in the role to get it right. We have had midfield problems for years and it is frustrating because the coaches never settle on a combination. AB or Blues (Nonu / Smith excepted).

@snowy Ioane is like Laumape for the Canes. They are both attacking minded and weapons in their own right but when they have been asked to step up in the ‘thinking’ department of their respective games I think they have fallen short. But hey, with the injuries at play they may both yet start for the All Blacks which would be a fairly interesting combination to say the least.

@canes4life said in Blues 2021:

@snowy Ioane is like Laumape for the Canes. They are both attacking minded and weapons in their own right but when they have been asked to step up in the ‘thinking’ department of their respective games I think they have fallen short. But hey, with the injuries at play they may both yet start for the All Blacks which would be a fairly interesting combination to say the least.

Tough to defend against them both, on the other hand I wouldn't be convinced about our defence.

@nzzp said in Blues 2021:

Seriously, though, I think Rieko's B+ and knocking on the door of the ABs. He brings solid defence and a speed opportunity that is rare. He's on the way up. Distribution took a step up again, and I'd say is one of the easier things for a good coaching group to keep improving. If you have to trade off an inexperienced 12 or 13 at the top level, I prefer ALB/RIoane to Havili/ALB... but ultimately it's up to the coaches.

Good summary. I think those three players will be in the 23. Havili/Ioane would also work but there's no way ALB misses out on starting

@duluth agreed, ALB needs to start at centre. Whether they go with the all round game of Havili or the power of Laumape remains to be seen. I expect injuries to still play their part before the ABs even take the field.

I am a Rieko fan, in fact I am beginning to think he is almost as good athlete as I was, but I agree with those who say he is not a good passer. Yet. Physically he has the skills, but he is still short of having the passing smarts that the AB 13 jumper deserves. Too many times this season have I seen him pass when he shouldn't and not pass when he should.

He is very similar to Ennor. But better.