Tough Crowd
Far out what a tough crowd haha. Of course we weren't at our best, but the Boks didn't allow us to get into any sort of rhythm, with their up and in lines peed and their constant pressure at breakdown time gave us no real opportunity to settle, as well as their up and under tactic which gave us the shits all night and didn't allow us to play on the counter. We all know what the boks are about and their game plan worked a treat where guys like Akira were being forced into working hard in the tight with Savea. Blackadder was obviously our best loose tonight as it was his sort of test where the majority of the play was in the tighter channels. This is a great learning curve for us to not only come away with a good hard fought victory when being forced into playing a different style, but also for our younger forwards coming up against a big physical pack for the first time in their careers. They found it hard, but they'll come out of it stronger.
Something that I didn't like out there was us trying to create something off 1st phase at every set piece. Yes, it worked originally as we tried to speed the game up and caught De Allende and Am folding in on the decoy runners, but once they adjusted, we kept using it as our default play from set piece which the boks read quite easily which ended up forcing us into a high error count.
Havili needed to just crash more and set up play in a game like this instead of going through the same set moves which had less effect as the game went on, and he should have been getting the message about that too as Rieko could also have assisted with crashing I feel. We needed to play tighter when plan a wasnt working.
I notice Brad Weber getting a lot of love and he was good too, added a bit of energy out there, but also a special mention to Pat Tuipulotu. He was everywhere on attack and defence, proving that he can be a valuable bench option at test level. Its definitely where he's best suited. Weber, Tuipulotu and Sotutu were easily our best coming off the bench, same can't be said for Ofa though. He gave away penalties at scrum time, stupidly collapsed a rolling maul, and dropped the ball while hot on attack. They targeted him at scrum time and as did a lot if thing for the boks tonight, it worked! He may have played himself out of a spot for next week after that performance with Lomax hot on his heels.
Sadly for fern favorite George Bridge, he was a disaster, one of the worst performances I've seen, possibly the worst since the late Sione Lauaki against the Wallabies in 2008. I have never ever been a fan of Bridge but even I fell into the trap of picking him to diffuse De Klerk, Pollard and Le Roux's high ball tactic and sure enough, it backfired badly. Having said that, I feel Reece would have had just as much of a torrid time out there so yeah, either way it was gonna be a tough night for our back 3, but the try he conceded was unforgivable as well as a few other simple bombs he put down. If ALB is fit next week, then Rieko can move to the left and Reece can move to the bench. I feel Reece could make a difference in the last 15-20 jn tight tests like these going forward. Again, we'll learn from the experience as our back 3 would never have encountered such a tactic of excessive high balls in their lives. Maybe we could use the Boks tactic that they employed against Wales in the 2019 WC semi of surrounding the catchers with about 5 forming a circle haha. We wouldn't dare do it, but we know that its coming, as does the whole world.
What we also have to remember is that this is a win against the World Champs without Whitelock and Aaron Smith, 2 of our most influential players. Smith's service and game awareness alone would have given our forwards an extra split second to crash over the advantage line and negate the Boks speed off the line and would have forced the boks into retreating a bit more, which would have allowed us more time to create some phases, given our cleaners more time to support our carriers and allow us to dictate the pace of the game a bit more. As a result, they hammered us in the tight, we couldn't string more than 1-2 phases at a time and we ended up going backwards a lot tonight as a result. He really is a huge loss to this side.
Huge credit to the boys for finding a way to win that when things were tough. We certainly look a lot more mentally tougher than previous seasons where we can find ways to win even in tough situations like tonight. We're not there yet, but we're slowly building into a world class team again.
@chris-b said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
Error ridden game - full of terrible catching and terrible passing.
I'm going to give our boys a bit of benefit of the doubt that the ball must have been slippery in the humidity (was it humid?).
Surely it was too awful to simply be incompetence by almost everybody?
When the game was on it was about 23-24 degrees and 83% humidity.
Townsville is shorts and t-shirt all year round
@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@chris said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
I don’t see how Tupaea gets votes, on the back of one turnover and 9 minutes on the field,he also missed 2 straight forward tackles.
match winning play. Recency bias. Didn't ahve time to cock up properly.
Edit: I didn't vote for him, but contemplated it
Seems harsh on Taylor, Jordan etc who did more hard yards than one play, same could be said for Taylor and Jordan without that try Game May have been lost.
Well, settling down a bit now. Considering how badly we played, the ball we fed to teh opposition, the constant stream of scrum penalties, the number of dumb decisions we took, and the fact that we still won the Boks ahve to be nervous.
Next week will be different. Boks can't expect to even get close with that gameplan, but with Paps and Jacobsen to come back, RM coming out of quarantine, and hopefully ALB, it could be a very very different game.
@chris said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
I don’t see how Tupaea
It was Havili who missed that tackle. I'd recognise that mullet anywhere.
Tupaea's acceleration was good.
@tim said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@chris said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
I don’t see how Tupaea
It was Havili who missed that tackle. I'd recognise that mullet anywhere.
Tupaea's acceleration was good.
No it was Quinn I just went back and looked no. 23
@tim said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@chris said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
I don’t see how Tupaea
It was Havili who missed that tackle. I'd recognise that mullet anywhere.
Tupaea's acceleration was good.
Tups has a bit of a mullet too.
I thought the vision clearly showed that it was 23 that missed the one on one.
@act-crusader said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@tim said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@chris said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
I don’t see how Tupaea
It was Havili who missed that tackle. I'd recognise that mullet anywhere.
Tupaea's acceleration was good.
Tups has a bit of a mullet too.
I thought the vision clearly showed that it was 23 that missed the one on one.
Yeah it was I checked the footage .
Had to take an hour break after that to get myself together. Frustration doesn't even begin to start the way I feel about it.
Firstly, hats off the Boks, especially the back row. Kolisi & Smith made turnover after turnover. We obviously weren't expecting that, as we not once changed our approach to the rucks to counter this. Either that or we simply couldn't. Their line out was also far superior to ours, although that shouldn't really come as a surprise - been one of the strengths of their game for as long as I can remember.
On the AB side, Jordie played his best game in black. Diffused the kicks and then nailed it at the end to take the victory. Well played, I'm one of his detractors, but credit where it was due. Little doubt that DMac could have been as effective. Blackadder played well and I thought, line out aside, that Taylor was pretty strong around the field as well. Our ball carrying on the whole wasn't too bad into contact, but we were isolated too often and hence the Box back row coming in.
Reffing wise, it was good to see a much better usage of the TMO. No endless replays of pointless things to make decisions.
It's a shame that's where the positives end.
Firstly, SA, hang your head in shame with your time wasting bullshit. Complete shame. Every single stoppage having your suite of medics, water carriers run on to attend to the latest injury / blood / cramp has gotten incredibly boring. It's not part of the game, it just kills it. I get it. Your boys are fucking massive, and that's basically your game plan, therefore they need those breaks to get wind in the sails again. But that's not rugby, that's American Football. If you want to play that game, then just bloody do so. Complete joke, which Pearce never really got a handle on.
Nice segue into Pearce there, but seriously talk about inconsistent. Starts off being pedantic as all hell, which is not my type of ref, but whatever ... but then to just let shit go right in front of you and apply possibly the worst interpretation of advantages I've ever seen. For a knock on, when the advantage is 10 metres forwards with momentum, that's advantage over. Also, when the AB's have the ball in any spot in the opposition 22 .. never blow your whistle to go back for the penalty. Ever. Thats when holes exist which we want to take advantage. Sorry mate, you looked out of your depth with a complete lack of feel for the game.
As for the rest of the Boks. Why even play a backline? You just kick kick kick and when you do spin it, you look completely amateur. Completely. Balls into touch, passes to nobody ... I think if we'd played Reece we would have got an intercept or two.
As for the All Black's ... I'm not as disheartened as others. I thought we played ok. We generally got go forward ball, made our tackles and outside the one Bridge error, SA never looked like scoring a try. Made some bad decision errors, with not taking the 3's early in the second half. Needed some scoreboard pressure / rewards for time down their end. I doubt we'll make that mistake again. We really missed Aaron Smith, and Perenara was all over the show passing wise, and did little ball in hand. Backline looked better once Weber was on.
I had thought during the Argies matches that all the try-bombing would really cost us against SA, and it very nearly did. So many dropped balls, mistakes when trying too hard. Need to figure out the right time for the off-loads, man off into the gap. There were loads of gaps to be exploited, but our decision making in getting them / taking advantage when through them just wasn't there today. That's credit to SA as much as criticism of NZ really.
All in all, I think we should go better next week. All it takes is some work on decision making & ball retention. The Bok's are not fit at all, they rely on switching out the forward packs and excessive delays to get through the 80 minutes. IF we use that against them, then we should be just fine.
MOTM - Jordie.
One of the things that was missing tonight was the straightforward ball carries from our forwards, particularly our locks.
It’s the Whitelock bread and butter play where he just takes it from 1st or 2nd receiver and just sucks in 3 or so defenders. Space creating plays. We were a bit lateral tonight.
Something to take away.
@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
It's amazing how a player can have an average game but improve the next week. A very strange phenomenon. The opposite can apparently also be true. Then again it isn't unknown 19 year olds to be written off here.
Well that's Bridge nailed on Foster's teamsheet for next week, then.
@act-crusader said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
One of the things that was missing tonight was the straightforward ball carries from our forwards, particularly our locks.
It’s the Whitelock bread and butter play where he just takes it from 1st or 2nd receiver and just sucks in 3 or so defenders. Space creating plays. We were a bit lateral tonight.
Something to take away.
Brodie definitely didn't do as well in that role. We had an overlap several times with him as the second receiver in the middle, but he was unable to link up with anyone in space.
Sotutu seems best suited to that role, in my opinion. A good playmaker, and effective in traffic - though obviously he's not first choice.
@kirwan said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
ALB and RI would be a tasty combination. Jordan and Reece on the wings.
I'd stick with DH with ALB (if fit) - he's been pretty solid apart from this game. Wasn't the worst tonite by a long chalk
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@kirwan said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
ALB and RI would be a tasty combination. Jordan and Reece on the wings.
I'd stick with DH with ALB (if fit) - he's been pretty solid apart from this game. Wasn't the worst tonite by a long chalk
Agreed what was happening inside him didn’t help.
@african-monkey I don’t think we ever settled. Lots of whistle because of so many penalties and errors.
It was tough night for the high balls generally. Boks coughed up some and Jordie even dropped at least 2.
I said it last week, Bridge looks low on confidence. Not running freely as he was in 2019. That first high ball drop was poor. Got himself in an awkward position and then didn’t read the swirling ball.
The rugby league style hit ups would be better use in the middle of the field a bit like how the ABs used Roko towards the latter part of his career (when he was copping criticism for not being able to beat a man…).
I’m a fan of what Reece brings because of all our wingers he seems to sniff out something from nothing. If ALB is fit I think Reece on the right and Ioane on the left.
@stargazer said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@tim said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
Bring back Whitelock as Captain.
He'll be back for the EOYT, so I assume he'll be captain again. Savea is just the replacement of the replacement captain.
Surely Cane will be captain even though most of us would prefer Whitelock.
@akan004 Yeah, that's assuming he'll come right in time. He still has to play a game ...
Did we just win the Championship tonite and our 100th match v Boks while missing a heap of front line players and the opposition missing just two? Didn't think so based on the comments here. I watched the NRL semi anyway and it was an amazing contest.
I am still happy that our coaches are selecting wisely for each match based on many factors and not all known to us. I do expect a bunch of changes next week and expect same from the Boks. Might be a different game with so much to prove from so many. It was great to see the impact and improved composure from our bench (excluding props). Great to triumph in these conditions when SA played so well. Maybe Kwagga was the most influential player on the park tonite.
@act-crusader said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
I’m a fan of what Reece brings because of all our wingers he seems to sniff out something from nothing.
There's some guy called Will Jordan who can be a bit of an opportunist..
@arhs said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
Did we just win the Championship tonite and our 100th match v Boks while missing a heap of front line players and the opposition missing just two? Didn't think so based on the comments here. I watched the NRL semi anyway and it was an amazing contest.
I am still happy that our coaches are selecting wisely for each match based on many factors and not all known to us. I do expect a bunch of changes next week and expect same from the Boks. Might be a different game with so much to prove from so many. It was great to see the impact and improved composure from our bench (excluding props). Great to triumph in these conditions when SA played so well. Maybe Kwagga was the most influential player on the park tonite.
George Bridge says thank you.
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@act-crusader said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
I’m a fan of what Reece brings because of all our wingers he seems to sniff out something from nothing.
There's some guy called Will Jordan who can be a bit of an opportunist..
In support he seems to pop up, but Reece can pick and go, get on the end of a maul, just works hard off the ball to create stuff.
@act-crusader said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@mrdenmore said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
“Tidy up our carry and clean game,” says Plumtree. What the hell does that mean?
Don't drop the ball, and clean out the rucks better.
Carry with a bit of purpose too.
Got to hold the ball to carry it ...
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
It's amazing how a player can have an average game but improve the next week. A very strange phenomenon. The opposite can apparently also be true. Then again it isn't unknown 19 year olds to be written off here.
Well that's Bridge nailed on Foster's teamsheet for next week, then.
Well there are still standards - with being able to catch and evade a geriatric being the obvious ones.
@stargazer said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
In the end, it's the result that counts.
Blackadder and Weber with the ventriloquist act…
@act-crusader Don't understand this at all. Jordan is the one person who can sniff out a try. His support lines are simply amazing.
@tim said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
A lot of scrum penalties against us when we are going marginally forward, this year. What's the story?
Set piece rather poor tonight.
Ref seemed very fickle. We didn't come off best with him
@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
So we won the TRC huh, we did not deserve that.
Really? Even though we scored more points? That's usually the definition of who "deserved" to win.
@smuts said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
This stings. I hope you’re happy.
Dire game. I can't see Rugby surviving as a major sport in twenty years if that sort of dross keeps getting served up.
An urgent review of the international refs panel is needed. Luke Pearce has no feel for the game. He should never have been allowed near a match with this historic resonance.
Played like garbage. Still won. And certainly made the selection picture a little clearer.
Some below par performances too. We need the core of this team running out again to put this series and tournament to bed. ALB and Papali'i/Jacobson obviously start if fit. Not that Blackadder played poorly but the trio just didn't gel.
Rieko on the wing and I wouldn't be surprised to see Reece start too.
The likes of Retallick, Laulala and Akira will know that wasn't good enough. I think we'll see improvements from the forwards next week.
Just watched it. Havent read the thread.
Finally after waiting nearly 2 years for Jordie to be started regularly at 15 AB management wakes up and gets the dividends.
SA time wasting driving me insane.
Blackadder is the real deal
Missing A Smith.
The ref was pedantic and didnt have a great feel for the game
Overall really enjoyed it a gritty test
@kirwan said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
Because of all the shit Patrick got this week, he was great today. Very physical
FIFY. And he played off the bench, where he seems to be at his best.
@smuts said in All Blacks vs Springboks I:
This stings. I hope you’re happy.
Have you not read this thread? One long pile of whinge, me included!