Hurricanes end Crusaders streak
Where do we start. Last night was a match of pure quality, two teams brimming with talent and it showed. I thought it was the best game of SRA so far, just the finishing of both sides was top notch and it was nail biting up until the last minute.
The Crusaders will obviously be disappointed losing their impressive run of home victories but a few players really stood up despite the end result.
Richie Mo'unga, take a bow young man, he was everywhere last night and surely deserves the first crack at the All Black's number 10 jersey. The way he drives his team around the park is just poetry in motion, and I believe without his efforts the Canes may have blown this one out.
The other player that stood out for me was Will Jordan. The Canes were able to shut him down for long periods of the match but he is one of those guys that you can't keep out forever. Massive running metres and he nearly pulled off a game-winning try right at the death.
That Jordie/Jordan combo must look very tantalising if you were an All Black selector right about now.
The last player that just keeps churning out influential performances is Sam Whitelock. How is this guy not All Black captain? Sorry Chiefs fans but this guy is the best option we have in the country at the moment.
He was tireless to the final whistle and was nearly able to turn the tide with all his experience, guile and skill. An absolute competitive performance. Exhausted himself for the cause and that's what we need at test level in my opinion.
Onto the Canes. Fairly chuffed watching them go about their work last night, I would consider that performance as their best since winning the title back in 2016. Asafo Aumua continued his rise up the hooking ranks with another barnstorming performance. He was nearly perfect at the lineout and did plenty of damage around the park. Scary to think that we haven't quite seen the finished product.
Another strong performer was Ardie Savea. One of the standouts in both teams last night. Was powerful when he carried and had an abundance of energy that allowed him to make an impact in defence and around the breakdown. Was simply destructive every time he got his hands on the ball.
Man of the match for me was Peter Umaga-Jensen. Dominating two All Black's in the space of two weeks must put him in contention for All Black selection, especially now Laumape looks to be out for some time.
I've been a big supporter of this kid ever since the Canes signed him out of school. At 22, and with a chance to showcase his ability with consistent game time, he has definitely announced himself over the last couple of weeks with his sharp, brave and direct style of running.
Check out Rugby Pass's rundown of PUJ here - https://www.rugbypass.com/news/hurricanes-new-star-umaga-jensen-impresses-fans-after-bullying-all-black-centre-jack-goodhue/
Lastly, it's hard not to applaud the Cane's pack. With late injuries causing disruption I couldn't have asked for more. Kudos to the young Tevita Mafileo, he really stood up after coming on early in the match. I can see why the Canes have signed him for the next two years. Strong at scrum time and he will probably only get better as he matures.
All in all, a great game of footy. Bring on today's match between the Blues & Chiefs.
@taniwharugby said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@canefan said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
May not have used the correct words.
yep, thats what I was alluding to, came across to me as having a bit of chip, much better ways of saying what he did.
He gets a ton of shit on social media, so just giving it beck, and politely - if a bit incoherent
@Higgins said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@Machpants said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@Duluth said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@Bones said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
Oh and hope Laumape isn't too bad.
Probably a broken wrist
Called when they showed the footage, sadly. Broken arm was the way he was holding it
So looking through the Hurricanes squad list on their website it looks like Danny Toala is the only one they have left that can play second five. Cue Billy Proctor (or, perhaps, some other relatively obsure Wellingtonian) to be named in that position!
Toala got a game last year at 2nd 5 and went well. So hopefully if Laumape is out he will get a run. That would likely mean Aso back to center (PUJ was knocked out so unlikely to play) and Kobus back on the wing
Another option is to give Aso a run at 2nd 5 (I wouldn't mind seeing how he goes one in) with Proctor at center. Regarding Toala, Hes still only 21 so lots of time for him. Proctor likewise. Proctor is criticized but give him a year or two and he will be a quality center
For some reason though the coaches don't seem to rate Toala that highly. I would certainly prefer him in the reserves to Tiatia
@shark said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@booboo I don't know if a good game marking Paea is the best measure of Umaga-Jensens' progress.
Who?
@shark said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@booboo I don't know if a good game marking Paea is the best measure of Umaga-Jensens' progress.
Fair call. However I have previously been underwhelmed by him and his name has been bandied about for years.
Was at least partially whelmed by him last night.
@canefan said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@Higgins said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@shark A possibility, but the who do you shoe into fullback? Tiatia looked only a stopgap measure earlier in the season and not one that would inspire too much confidence into supporters.
Its too late to move JB in now. Not because I don't think he can do it but because he's doing so well at 15 and we don't have a viable alternative
I can see Barrett moving to 2nd 5 later in his career as his speed declines. But for now stick to FB. Hes class and for me would select as the starting test FB. His brother should move back to 1st
@booboo said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@shark said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@booboo I don't know if a good game marking Paea is the best measure of Umaga-Jensens' progress.
Fair call. However I have previously been underwhelmed by him and his name has been bandied about for years.
Was at least partially whelmed by him last night.
That’s two weeks in a row that PUJ has played very well.
@booboo said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@shark said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@booboo I don't know if a good game marking Paea is the best measure of Umaga-Jensens' progress.
Fair call. However I have previously been underwhelmed by him and his name has been bandied about for years.
Was at least partially whelmed by him last night.
Hes had two good games now. But he looks the part physically now (Proctor also needs work here). Maybe hes done a lot of quality gym work and this has make a difference. But he also ran hard. Defended well. Option taking was also good. Shame he will likely miss the next 2 games
@kiwiinmelb said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@No-Quarter said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
Jordie has been so fucking good this year. Has really come of age, he's world class now.
In hindsight we definitely kept the best Barrett.
He is Often maligned but I still think he is a work in progress rather than a finished product , has the tools to make a good test fullback Imo, that goal kicking could be a weapon on its own.
Still a work in progress for sure, but he's turned a corner this year where he's cut out the absurd errors he was making in previous years when he tried to do too much. His net positive far outweighs the negative now, whereas with someone like DMac it's still 50/50 at best.
@Machpants wow see Goosen and Lams tackles count both in the 10s that’s a lot for wings to make
@Canes4life Agree with most of that. I'd have to add though that this game exactly showed why David Havili is the preferred Crusaders fullback rather than Jordan. This game clearly exposed the defensive weaknesses in Jordan's game and his organisational work from the back still has to grow a lot. I'd only pick Jordan as an ABs wing, at the moment, and opt for Havili for a utility/fullback spot in black.
I'd also like to add George Bridge to the stand-outs. He's coming into better form with every game.
It's good to see Ardie getting back into form, too, after his surgery. It has taken a while, understandably, but his timing couldn't be better. It's a pity Sam Cane has been named captain before the season kicked off, which means that it is a near certainty that he'll start for the ABs and probably at 7. I'd prefer Ardie at 7, not 8, in black, but that's probably where things are going.
Does anyone know why Lomax, Walker-Leawere and Fifita were unavailable? What exactly was wrong with them?
@Tim said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@Higgins I think he played most of the season at 12 for BOP.
Yeah, him and Toala were the best players from either team in the final both at 12, which you'd have to give the award to Tiatia due to his team's win.
On Laumape, is it more he was asked a question and replied, or was there a televised interview where he sounded snippy?
@ACT-Crusader said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@booboo said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@shark said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@booboo I don't know if a good game marking Paea is the best measure of Umaga-Jensens' progress.
Fair call. However I have previously been underwhelmed by him and his name has been bandied about for years.
Was at least partially whelmed by him last night.
That’s two weeks in a row that PUJ has played very well.
Yeah, he's started showing why he's rated so highly - and he looks massive.
@Stargazer On Sky they said that Lomax had an ear infection. No idea on the others.
@No-Quarter said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@kiwiinmelb said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@No-Quarter said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
Jordie has been so fucking good this year. Has really come of age, he's world class now.
In hindsight we definitely kept the best Barrett.
He is Often maligned but I still think he is a work in progress rather than a finished product , has the tools to make a good test fullback Imo, that goal kicking could be a weapon on its own.
Still a work in progress for sure, but he's turned a corner this year where he's cut out the absurd errors he was making in previous years when he tried to do too much. His net positive far outweighs the negative now, whereas with someone like DMac it's still 50/50 at best.
You had me kind of agreeing until you got to the DMac quip. DMac isn't in great form but put in a string of decent performances in black pre injury ... JB hasn't really done that yet. And as much as you say his error rate is down, he's still at least one silly unforced error a game even now when he's playing well.
And yes he's playing well, but I think for most non JB fluffers (like myself) the issue has never been whether he has the talent, but has always been his promotion to the ABs based on that potential talent and not on his form and temperament. If he keeps playing as he's playing now I'll have to stop trolling the JB fluffers and that will be a sad day. 
Well, if he isn't good enough at FB to get some starts for the ABs, I don't see how he should get a wing spot - he's much worse there on defense and looks like he has no idea with his positioning.
I think he deserves a shot, but he may be a very unlucky player, as Jordie is starting to really develop.
@ACT-Crusader said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@booboo said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@shark said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@booboo I don't know if a good game marking Paea is the best measure of Umaga-Jensens' progress.
Fair call. However I have previously been underwhelmed by him and his name has been bandied about for years.
Was at least partially whelmed by him last night.
That’s two weeks in a row that PUJ has played very well.
As well as mentioning you're agreeing with @Winger I didn't watch last week's game as closely.
@gt12 Yeah, I think it may just be a bit too early for him. Plenty of time to learn and get better. The same applies to someone like Clarke, IMO.
@Nepia he definitely looks bigger than the 95kg Sky Sport make him out to be pre match. I think he's probably sitting more between 100-105kg.
@Stargazer said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@Canes4life Agree with most of that. I'd have to add though that this game exactly showed why David Havili is the preferred Crusaders fullback rather than Jordan. This game clearly exposed the defensive weaknesses in Jordan's game and his organisational work from the back still has to grow a lot. I'd only pick Jordan as an ABs wing, at the moment, and opt for Havili for a utility/fullback spot in black.
Havili hasn't been perfect at fullback either - his last game against the Blues was not one of his best.
@Crazy-Horse Douglas has always been a journeyman let's be honest. He goes OK with guys like Read and Todd next to him holding his hand but is barely NPC standard without them.
@KiwiMurph said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@Stargazer said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@Canes4life Agree with most of that. I'd have to add though that this game exactly showed why David Havili is the preferred Crusaders fullback rather than Jordan. This game clearly exposed the defensive weaknesses in Jordan's game and his organisational work from the back still has to grow a lot. I'd only pick Jordan as an ABs wing, at the moment, and opt for Havili for a utility/fullback spot in black.
Havili hasn't been perfect at fullback either - his last game against the Blues was not one of his best.
Turnstiles don’t make good Test players. There is a reason he drifted out of the AB squad
@Nepia said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
Haven't read the thread yet, but Boris needs to go back to centre, he's shit at 12. ALB has been copping crap all season but Goodhue was barely NPC standard last night.
I thought Boris was at Number 10! ?
I'll get my coat.
@Nepia said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@Machpants said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
various Russian movie bad guys
There is your clue.
I thought all crusaders are bad guys?
@Kirwan Wow. It's a miracle we've won three titles on the bounce considering how horrific our defence is at 10 and 15.
@African-Monkey said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@Crazy-Horse Douglas has always been a journeyman let's be honest. He goes OK with guys like Read and Todd next to him holding his hand but is barely NPC standard without them.
He was at his best when first filling in for Read, maybe two years ago.
@Crazy-Horse said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
Loose forwards are a real problem for the Crusaders this year . With Grace injured, the Sader loosies are NPC level at best. Douglas has fallen off a cliff this year, I lost count of the times he failed to run on to the ball last night.
No argument there, but losing Read, Todd and Taufua at once was always going to hurt. Douglas isn't playing as well as he has done in the past, Christie is green and limited on attack, Harmon is the better fetcher but gets roughed up due to his size. And now we're missing our best two blindside options. Actually possibly best three including Barrett. Sanders is solid but unspectacular. It's all a bit average.
@KiwiMurph said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@Stargazer said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@Canes4life Agree with most of that. I'd have to add though that this game exactly showed why David Havili is the preferred Crusaders fullback rather than Jordan. This game clearly exposed the defensive weaknesses in Jordan's game and his organisational work from the back still has to grow a lot. I'd only pick Jordan as an ABs wing, at the moment, and opt for Havili for a utility/fullback spot in black.
Havili hasn't been perfect at fullback either - his last game against the Blues was not one of his best.
True, it wasn't his best game, but he was still miles better than BB in that game.
@shark He's just making stuff up. Havili came into the ABs as an injury replacement for Jordie Barrett. He lost his spot when Jordie returned from injury. It has nothing to do with below par performance or weak defence. Jordie's selection ahead of Havili has been controversial the last two years. The selectors said so themselves, last year, that Havili did everything right and was very unlucky, and then made up "Jordie being more versatile" as the reason, which was of course bs and everyone knew it.
@Stargazer said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
then made up "Jordie being more versatile" as the reason, which was of course bs and everyone knew it.
So what was the reason, then. This is Jordie who had played 10, midfield, wing, and fullback for the ABs?
@Machpants At that point, he hadn't played 10 for the ABs, yet. Only wing and fullback at that point. Maybe a few minutes at 12 due to subs. It was a "made-up reason", because Havili has the same versatility as Jordie.
Edited to add that IMO they should both be selected, this year, and that Dmac should be the one missing out.
@shark said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@Kirwan Wow. It's a miracle we've won three titles on the bounce considering how horrific our defence is at 10 and 15.
Just another player whose ceiling is super rugby, not “horrific”. I made a point of mentioning Test rugby, you can get away with hiding tens on the wing or having a fullback that arm tackles at the lower level.
It’s the same thing BB got criticised for at Test level and he had to fix it.
@Stargazer said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@KiwiMurph said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@Stargazer said in Crusaders v Hurricanes:
@Canes4life Agree with most of that. I'd have to add though that this game exactly showed why David Havili is the preferred Crusaders fullback rather than Jordan. This game clearly exposed the defensive weaknesses in Jordan's game and his organisational work from the back still has to grow a lot. I'd only pick Jordan as an ABs wing, at the moment, and opt for Havili for a utility/fullback spot in black.
Havili hasn't been perfect at fullback either - his last game against the Blues was not one of his best.
True, it wasn't his best game, but he was still miles better than BB in that game.
That wouldn't be hard.