Hanson and Foster's errors

@bones said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@booboo said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@act-crusader said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

the thing that makes me wonder about foster the most

areas like loosies and midfield, we're trying to find new incumbents...but he never plays the same combos more than once, play Ioane 3-4 time in a row, let him settle in! playing someone for one games...then not even 23, then bench, then starting again is never going to get the comfortable

There was no need to play frizell on sat, i like him, think he doesn't get enough credit around here...but we know what he can do int the black jersey, we dont need to keep testing him

Injuries have played a huge part in the midfield selections over the past number of years. Plus the fact we came to the end of a period where we had two pretty durable players in Smith and Nonu that were constants for a long time.

During that era though we did try a number of players around those two, with mixed success mind you.

Trying to find that right combination with players that have relative inexperience, plus injuries, is not an easy one for the coaches, whether that be Henry, Hansen and now Foster.

Can't disagree with your comments on the problems the coaches have had, but Conrad & Ma'a departed 6 years ago and we've had an awful lot of buggering about and weird selections at 12/13 since then. How much time do they need?

Not blaming Foster for all of this and he needs a bit of time to decide on his midfield but at some stage in the very near future they need to decide on their top combinations and stick to them.

Well best at RWC2019 was SBW and JG with ALB off the bench, but they didn't pick that.

Currently it should be ALB and JG (with Rieko on the wing) but they can't pick that.

I feel like the less this guy plays, the better he gets viewed.

It's been quite some time since he had a good test. I like him and I think he's world class, but ALB has a better body of work over the last few years, and so (perhaps) does Roane.

I don't - and I find it interesting his "lack of pace" is often mentioned, it'd be good to see an example of what this actually means. He was bloody good at centre as a young fella, if he'd have been allowed to stick there, I feel we might have seen a lot more come of him. But yeah at 12 he's a complete dud.

I am a big fan of JG. I was saying a few years ago the ABs should build the backline around him. Error free on attack and defense, and superb at putting people into space. It used to be a real surprise when he made a mistake and he seemed to do the right thing at the right time.

Not sure what happened, but the last two years or so errors started to creep into his game. Trying too hard in the transition from role playing youngster to experienced leader?

As for his lack of pace, it was never a problem for Smith. JG does struggle to beat players on the outside, and I do remember being surprised at how easily he was caught from behind when it looked for all money he was going to score.

@daffy-jaffy said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

Flying Fijians Coach Vern Cotter says they are hopeful that captain Levani Botia will be able to play this weekend while Eroni Sau has been ruled out due to an injury.

According to Cotter, Botia suffered a knee strain last Saturday, and is expected to undergo a scan today.

Cotter says it is a 50/50 situation with Botia.

Botia might be lucky that he is 50/50 and not suspended -

Didn’t commentators say completely legal?

@pakman said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@daffy-jaffy said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

Flying Fijians Coach Vern Cotter says they are hopeful that captain Levani Botia will be able to play this weekend while Eroni Sau has been ruled out due to an injury.

According to Cotter, Botia suffered a knee strain last Saturday, and is expected to undergo a scan today.

Cotter says it is a 50/50 situation with Botia.

Botia might be lucky that he is 50/50 and not suspended -

Didn’t commentators say completely legal?

They were too busy trying to “inject excitement” rather than look at what happened.

In my eyes it was a YC only so no banning risk.
It was careless in that the tackler was never giving himself the chance to pull out if DMac lowered his body position by stepping. Head contact was always a likely result when you go for a big chest hit like that.

IIRC there was a replay that should have alerted the TMO. Maybe he wasn’t watching?

@crucial said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

In my eyes it was a YC only so no banning risk.

refer the framework above though - it's contact to the head with force = red card. The issue is that people aren't applying the framework, so what's the point in having it.

We've seen this wtih the 'tip tackle' or players in air framework, that keeps getting ignored, or apparently mitigated by defenders (George Bridge penalty, Bryce Heem, etc).

I don't care what the laws are, I care that they are clear, and enforced reasonably consistently.

@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@crucial said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

In my eyes it was a YC only so no banning risk.

refer the framework above though - it's contact to the head with force = red card. The issue is that people aren't applying the framework, so what's the point in having it.

We've seen this wtih the 'tip tackle' or players in air framework, that keeps getting ignored, or apparently mitigated by defenders (George Bridge penalty, Bryce Heem, etc).

I don't care what the laws are, I care that they are clear, and enforced reasonably consistently.

Isn't that the starting point, then apply mitigating factors, n this case DMac lowering his body position. So yellow for me, but ridiculous not to be reviewed. (Some suggestion initial contact was on shoulder, which I didn't see, but even so stays at yellow IMO.)

@bovidae said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

JB might be the backup midfielder again this Sat but there is no way you can have BB, JB and DMac in the 23 if Mo'unga is starting too.

BB would be the one to miss out in that situation. JB on the bench.

how about jordie on the wing?......

@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@bovidae said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

JB might be the backup midfielder again this Sat but there is no way you can have BB, JB and DMac in the 23 if Mo'unga is starting too.

BB would be the one to miss out in that situation. JB on the bench.

how about jordie on the wing?......

I can’t wait for @Rancid-Schnitzel to read this

@booboo said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

Isn't that the starting point, then apply mitigating factors, n this case DMac lowering his body position. So yellow for me, but ridiculous not to be reviewed. (Some suggestion initial contact was on shoulder, which I didn't see, but even so stays at yellow IMO.)

The mitigation is a sudden lowering, and I'm not sure that applies here. Nonetheless, we agree it shouldn't have been 'play on'

@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@booboo said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

Isn't that the starting point, then apply mitigating factors, n this case DMac lowering his body position. So yellow for me, but ridiculous not to be reviewed. (Some suggestion initial contact was on shoulder, which I didn't see, but even so stays at yellow IMO.)

The mitigation is a sudden lowering, and I'm not sure that applies here. Nonetheless, we agree it shouldn't have been 'play on'

Probably need to watch a clip but IIRC DMac tried to step inside/change direction which put his body at about a 45degree angle meaning that his head was lower. A step like that is sudden.
Fault still lies with the tackler though.

@no-quarter said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

Hansen and Foster have built up a pretty solid body of work when it comes to ridiculous selections and/or playing players out of position to the detriment of that player and the team now.

• Dual playmaker at the RWC - absolute disaster, putting our senior 10 at the back to make way for a rookie that couldn't handle the pressure. Idiotic and has hurt both players form at test level.
• Benching Sam Cane for the RWC semi final when we knew England would try to bash us up front. Seriously what in the God Damn Fuck were they thinking.
• Forging ahead with Bridge on the wing instead of someone that actually offers threat.
• Playing Goodhue at 12 when he was cementing himself in the team as a world class 13. His form suffered badly as a result.
• Playing Jordie on the wing after what I regard as his breakout season for the Canes at 15. Absolutely stuffed his confidence at test level where he ended up trying too much as it's not his natural position at all.
• Not developing Akira Ioane as our 6, instead giving others who aren't up to it chance after chance. If player management isn't the absolute crux of their job then I don't know what they fuck they are doing in the role.

I'm sure I've missed some there. And further to that, instead of addressing the glaring issue of not getting go-forward up front, they've just decided to hell with it let's just spin it wide early and hope for the best. Arrogant and idiotic game plans against world class organised defenses that puts our players under all sorts of pressure and leads to a high error rate.

It's fair to say I have precisely 0 confidence in our coaches and selectors right now.

I agree with all those points except the third. George Bridge has come on in leaps and bounds as a playmaker.

@mn5 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@no-quarter said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

Hansen and Foster have built up a pretty solid body of work when it comes to ridiculous selections and/or playing players out of position to the detriment of that player and the team now.

• Dual playmaker at the RWC - absolute disaster, putting our senior 10 at the back to make way for a rookie that couldn't handle the pressure. Idiotic and has hurt both players form at test level.
• Benching Sam Cane for the RWC semi final when we knew England would try to bash us up front. Seriously what in the God Damn Fuck were they thinking.
• Forging ahead with Bridge on the wing instead of someone that actually offers threat.
• Playing Goodhue at 12 when he was cementing himself in the team as a world class 13. His form suffered badly as a result.
• Playing Jordie on the wing after what I regard as his breakout season for the Canes at 15. Absolutely stuffed his confidence at test level where he ended up trying too much as it's not his natural position at all.
• Not developing Akira Ioane as our 6, instead giving others who aren't up to it chance after chance. If player management isn't the absolute crux of their job then I don't know what they fuck they are doing in the role.

I'm sure I've missed some there. And further to that, instead of addressing the glaring issue of not getting go-forward up front, they've just decided to hell with it let's just spin it wide early and hope for the best. Arrogant and idiotic game plans against world class organised defenses that puts our players under all sorts of pressure and leads to a high error rate.

It's fair to say I have precisely 0 confidence in our coaches and selectors right now.

I agree with all those points except the third. George Bridge has come on in leaps and bounds as a playmaker.

I genuinely don't know if you're being sarcastic or not.

@mn5 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@bovidae said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

JB might be the backup midfielder again this Sat but there is no way you can have BB, JB and DMac in the 23 if Mo'unga is starting too.

BB would be the one to miss out in that situation. JB on the bench.

how about jordie on the wing?......

I can’t wait for @Rancid-Schnitzel to read this

How about him at bloody 12. It’s not like we’re spoilt for choice there at the moment.

@no-quarter said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

Hansen and Foster have built up a pretty solid body of work when it comes to ridiculous selections and/or playing players out of position to the detriment of that player and the team now.

• Dual playmaker at the RWC - absolute disaster, putting our senior 10 at the back to make way for a rookie that couldn't handle the pressure. Idiotic and has hurt both players form at test level.
• Benching Sam Cane for the RWC semi final when we knew England would try to bash us up front. Seriously what in the God Damn Fuck were they thinking.
• Forging ahead with Bridge on the wing instead of someone that actually offers threat.
• Playing Goodhue at 12 when he was cementing himself in the team as a world class 13. His form suffered badly as a result.
• Playing Jordie on the wing after what I regard as his breakout season for the Canes at 15. Absolutely stuffed his confidence at test level where he ended up trying too much as it's not his natural position at all.
• Not developing Akira Ioane as our 6, instead giving others who aren't up to it chance after chance. If player management isn't the absolute crux of their job then I don't know what they fuck they are doing in the role.

I'm sure I've missed some there. And further to that, instead of addressing the glaring issue of not getting go-forward up front, they've just decided to hell with it let's just spin it wide early and hope for the best. Arrogant and idiotic game plans against world class organised defenses that puts our players under all sorts of pressure and leads to a high error rate.

It's fair to say I have precisely 0 confidence in our coaches and selectors right now.

Unless I’m mistaken, Bridge was a secret weapon they planned to unleash at the WC too - I think it was @dogmeat who went to an event about a year before the WC where a selector (Fox?) said that Bridge would be on the wing come WC time.

I’d add that we’ve had no improvement in our props since, I honestly cant remember, and perhaps chased away some who could have been the foundation for a stronger set piece.

@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@mn5 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@bovidae said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

JB might be the backup midfielder again this Sat but there is no way you can have BB, JB and DMac in the 23 if Mo'unga is starting too.

BB would be the one to miss out in that situation. JB on the bench.

how about jordie on the wing?......

I can’t wait for @Rancid-Schnitzel to read this

How about him at bloody 12. It’s not like we’re spoilt for choice there at the moment.

I wouldn’t be convinced he could stand out there but again, not a plethora of other options.

@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@mn5 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@no-quarter said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

Hansen and Foster have built up a pretty solid body of work when it comes to ridiculous selections and/or playing players out of position to the detriment of that player and the team now.

• Dual playmaker at the RWC - absolute disaster, putting our senior 10 at the back to make way for a rookie that couldn't handle the pressure. Idiotic and has hurt both players form at test level.
• Benching Sam Cane for the RWC semi final when we knew England would try to bash us up front. Seriously what in the God Damn Fuck were they thinking.
• Forging ahead with Bridge on the wing instead of someone that actually offers threat.
• Playing Goodhue at 12 when he was cementing himself in the team as a world class 13. His form suffered badly as a result.
• Playing Jordie on the wing after what I regard as his breakout season for the Canes at 15. Absolutely stuffed his confidence at test level where he ended up trying too much as it's not his natural position at all.
• Not developing Akira Ioane as our 6, instead giving others who aren't up to it chance after chance. If player management isn't the absolute crux of their job then I don't know what they fuck they are doing in the role.

I'm sure I've missed some there. And further to that, instead of addressing the glaring issue of not getting go-forward up front, they've just decided to hell with it let's just spin it wide early and hope for the best. Arrogant and idiotic game plans against world class organised defenses that puts our players under all sorts of pressure and leads to a high error rate.

It's fair to say I have precisely 0 confidence in our coaches and selectors right now.

I agree with all those points except the third. George Bridge has come on in leaps and bounds as a playmaker.

I genuinely don't know if you're being sarcastic or not.

Sarcasm. Bridge is the Fern's new whipping boy.

@crazy-horse said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@mn5 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@no-quarter said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

Hansen and Foster have built up a pretty solid body of work when it comes to ridiculous selections and/or playing players out of position to the detriment of that player and the team now.

• Dual playmaker at the RWC - absolute disaster, putting our senior 10 at the back to make way for a rookie that couldn't handle the pressure. Idiotic and has hurt both players form at test level.
• Benching Sam Cane for the RWC semi final when we knew England would try to bash us up front. Seriously what in the God Damn Fuck were they thinking.
• Forging ahead with Bridge on the wing instead of someone that actually offers threat.
• Playing Goodhue at 12 when he was cementing himself in the team as a world class 13. His form suffered badly as a result.
• Playing Jordie on the wing after what I regard as his breakout season for the Canes at 15. Absolutely stuffed his confidence at test level where he ended up trying too much as it's not his natural position at all.
• Not developing Akira Ioane as our 6, instead giving others who aren't up to it chance after chance. If player management isn't the absolute crux of their job then I don't know what they fuck they are doing in the role.

I'm sure I've missed some there. And further to that, instead of addressing the glaring issue of not getting go-forward up front, they've just decided to hell with it let's just spin it wide early and hope for the best. Arrogant and idiotic game plans against world class organised defenses that puts our players under all sorts of pressure and leads to a high error rate.

It's fair to say I have precisely 0 confidence in our coaches and selectors right now.

I agree with all those points except the third. George Bridge has come on in leaps and bounds as a playmaker.

I genuinely don't know if you're being sarcastic or not.

Sarcasm. Bridge is the Fern's new whipping boy.

Not entirely true. @Stag and @Stargazer do some top quality white knighting

@mn5 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@mn5 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@bovidae said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

JB might be the backup midfielder again this Sat but there is no way you can have BB, JB and DMac in the 23 if Mo'unga is starting too.

BB would be the one to miss out in that situation. JB on the bench.

how about jordie on the wing?......

I can’t wait for @Rancid-Schnitzel to read this

How about him at bloody 12. It’s not like we’re spoilt for choice there at the moment.

I wouldn’t be convinced he could stand out there but again, not a plethora of other options.

Well I wish I could actually be given a chance to be proven right or wrong. It just doesn’t make any sense to me. Playing him at 12 is a hell of a lot more logical than playing him at 13 or on the wing. We don’t need anymore wingers, we have George Bridge.

@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@mn5 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@mn5 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@bovidae said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

JB might be the backup midfielder again this Sat but there is no way you can have BB, JB and DMac in the 23 if Mo'unga is starting too.

BB would be the one to miss out in that situation. JB on the bench.

how about jordie on the wing?......

I can’t wait for @Rancid-Schnitzel to read this

How about him at bloody 12. It’s not like we’re spoilt for choice there at the moment.

I wouldn’t be convinced he could stand out there but again, not a plethora of other options.

Well I wish I could actually be given a chance to be proven right or wrong. It just doesn’t make any sense to me. Playing him at 12 is a hell of a lot more logical than playing him at 13 or on the wing. We don’t need anymore wingers, we have George Bridge.

Well, we don’t need a playmaker at 10 now. Perhaps Akira Ioane could get a run there ?

I guess Bridge explains spinning it wide so early, we need to work hard to get the ball to our playmaker to create something out there. Really groundbreaking tactics.

@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

I think it was @dogmeat who went to an event about a year before the WC where a selector (Fox?) said that Bridge would be on the wing come WC time.

Is this true? It can't be true. I don't know if that makes the decision better or worse. At least with throw the baby out of the bathwater scenario after Perth then it's a snap decision made without forethought. But a planned decision? It's 10am on a Tuesday (which is my first day of the work week) and I think has been broken.

@crazy-horse said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@mn5 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@no-quarter said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

Hansen and Foster have built up a pretty solid body of work when it comes to ridiculous selections and/or playing players out of position to the detriment of that player and the team now.

• Dual playmaker at the RWC - absolute disaster, putting our senior 10 at the back to make way for a rookie that couldn't handle the pressure. Idiotic and has hurt both players form at test level.
• Benching Sam Cane for the RWC semi final when we knew England would try to bash us up front. Seriously what in the God Damn Fuck were they thinking.
• Forging ahead with Bridge on the wing instead of someone that actually offers threat.
• Playing Goodhue at 12 when he was cementing himself in the team as a world class 13. His form suffered badly as a result.
• Playing Jordie on the wing after what I regard as his breakout season for the Canes at 15. Absolutely stuffed his confidence at test level where he ended up trying too much as it's not his natural position at all.
• Not developing Akira Ioane as our 6, instead giving others who aren't up to it chance after chance. If player management isn't the absolute crux of their job then I don't know what they fuck they are doing in the role.

I'm sure I've missed some there. And further to that, instead of addressing the glaring issue of not getting go-forward up front, they've just decided to hell with it let's just spin it wide early and hope for the best. Arrogant and idiotic game plans against world class organised defenses that puts our players under all sorts of pressure and leads to a high error rate.

It's fair to say I have precisely 0 confidence in our coaches and selectors right now.

I agree with all those points except the third. George Bridge has come on in leaps and bounds as a playmaker.

I genuinely don't know if you're being sarcastic or not.

Sarcasm. Bridge is the Fern's new whipping boy.

Justified whipping boy.

To be fair, not his fault. He's playing the way he usually does. And it's not anti-cantab bias either; why isn't Reece coming in for the same attention? Because he's a better winger who creates and finishes.

@mn5 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@crazy-horse said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@mn5 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@no-quarter said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

Hansen and Foster have built up a pretty solid body of work when it comes to ridiculous selections and/or playing players out of position to the detriment of that player and the team now.

• Dual playmaker at the RWC - absolute disaster, putting our senior 10 at the back to make way for a rookie that couldn't handle the pressure. Idiotic and has hurt both players form at test level.
• Benching Sam Cane for the RWC semi final when we knew England would try to bash us up front. Seriously what in the God Damn Fuck were they thinking.
• Forging ahead with Bridge on the wing instead of someone that actually offers threat.
• Playing Goodhue at 12 when he was cementing himself in the team as a world class 13. His form suffered badly as a result.
• Playing Jordie on the wing after what I regard as his breakout season for the Canes at 15. Absolutely stuffed his confidence at test level where he ended up trying too much as it's not his natural position at all.
• Not developing Akira Ioane as our 6, instead giving others who aren't up to it chance after chance. If player management isn't the absolute crux of their job then I don't know what they fuck they are doing in the role.

I'm sure I've missed some there. And further to that, instead of addressing the glaring issue of not getting go-forward up front, they've just decided to hell with it let's just spin it wide early and hope for the best. Arrogant and idiotic game plans against world class organised defenses that puts our players under all sorts of pressure and leads to a high error rate.

It's fair to say I have precisely 0 confidence in our coaches and selectors right now.

I agree with all those points except the third. George Bridge has come on in leaps and bounds as a playmaker.

I genuinely don't know if you're being sarcastic or not.

Sarcasm. Bridge is the Fern's new whipping boy.

Not entirely true. @Stag and @Stargazer do some top quality white knighting

thanks, couldn't remember who was doing that. I think @Crazy-Horse is there in the pro-Bridge camp as well

@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@mn5 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@crazy-horse said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@mn5 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@no-quarter said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

Hansen and Foster have built up a pretty solid body of work when it comes to ridiculous selections and/or playing players out of position to the detriment of that player and the team now.

• Dual playmaker at the RWC - absolute disaster, putting our senior 10 at the back to make way for a rookie that couldn't handle the pressure. Idiotic and has hurt both players form at test level.
• Benching Sam Cane for the RWC semi final when we knew England would try to bash us up front. Seriously what in the God Damn Fuck were they thinking.
• Forging ahead with Bridge on the wing instead of someone that actually offers threat.
• Playing Goodhue at 12 when he was cementing himself in the team as a world class 13. His form suffered badly as a result.
• Playing Jordie on the wing after what I regard as his breakout season for the Canes at 15. Absolutely stuffed his confidence at test level where he ended up trying too much as it's not his natural position at all.
• Not developing Akira Ioane as our 6, instead giving others who aren't up to it chance after chance. If player management isn't the absolute crux of their job then I don't know what they fuck they are doing in the role.

I'm sure I've missed some there. And further to that, instead of addressing the glaring issue of not getting go-forward up front, they've just decided to hell with it let's just spin it wide early and hope for the best. Arrogant and idiotic game plans against world class organised defenses that puts our players under all sorts of pressure and leads to a high error rate.

It's fair to say I have precisely 0 confidence in our coaches and selectors right now.

I agree with all those points except the third. George Bridge has come on in leaps and bounds as a playmaker.

I genuinely don't know if you're being sarcastic or not.

Sarcasm. Bridge is the Fern's new whipping boy.

Not entirely true. @Stag and @Stargazer do some top quality white knighting

thanks, couldn't remember who was doing that. I think @Crazy-Horse is there in the pro-Bridge camp as well

Wrong. I have stated multiple times I am not stoked he is our winger. I have even said I'm not keen on him at the Saders. All I have done is to point out what I think he is bringing to the team in the coaches eyes.

@no-quarter said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

Hansen and Foster have built up a pretty solid body of work when it comes to ridiculous selections and/or playing players out of position to the detriment of that player and the team now.

• Dual playmaker at the RWC - absolute disaster, putting our senior 10 at the back to make way for a rookie that couldn't handle the pressure. Idiotic and has hurt both players form at test level.
• Benching Sam Cane for the RWC semi final when we knew England would try to bash us up front. Seriously what in the God Damn Fuck were they thinking.
• Forging ahead with Bridge on the wing instead of someone that actually offers threat.
• Playing Goodhue at 12 when he was cementing himself in the team as a world class 13. His form suffered badly as a result.
• Playing Jordie on the wing after what I regard as his breakout season for the Canes at 15. Absolutely stuffed his confidence at test level where he ended up trying too much as it's not his natural position at all.
• Not developing Akira Ioane as our 6, instead giving others who aren't up to it chance after chance. If player management isn't the absolute crux of their job then I don't know what they fuck they are doing in the role.

I'm sure I've missed some there. And further to that, instead of addressing the glaring issue of not getting go-forward up front, they've just decided to hell with it let's just spin it wide early and hope for the best. Arrogant and idiotic game plans against world class organised defenses that puts our players under all sorts of pressure and leads to a high error rate.

It's fair to say I have precisely 0 confidence in our coaches and selectors right now.

I'd add the dropping of Ben Smith altogether when he should have stayed in his best position - fullback - and not have been shunted to the right wing, and then in turn replaced by George Bridge.

Ben Smith was the world's best fullback. He never lost form as he proved in his performance against Wales for 3rd/4th playoff.

@frank said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

Ben Smith was the world's best fullback. He never lost form, as he proved in his performance against Wales for 3rd/4th playoff.

Bridge looked initially like he might be Ben Smith v2.0, but the gulf between them is vast right now.

Oh, how we miss the good old back three with Smith, Barrett (B)and Ioane. Such talent by comparison, even with Smith at 14

@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@frank said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

Ben Smith was the world's best fullback. He never lost form, as he proved in his performance against Wales for 3rd/4th playoff.

Bridge looked initially like he might be Ben Smith v2.0, but the gulf between them is vast right now.

Oh, how we miss the good old back three with Smith, Barrett (B)and Ioane. Such talent by comparison, even with Smith at 14

We still have two out if those three, and now a handy 14 in Jordan...

I am in the pro-Bridge camp. You all create your own reality through cognitive dissonance. Offers a dam sight more than fern favourite Clarke would if he was in the ABs in his present form.
Having said that Bridge wouldn't be in my first 15. Riko I. is the best No. 11 in the country.

@old-samurai-jack said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

I am in the pro-Bridge camp. You all create your own reality through cognitive dissonance. Offers a dam sight more than fern favourite Clarke would if he was in the ABs in his present form.
Having said that Bridge wouldn't be in my first 15. Riko I. is the best No. 11 in the country.

Yeah but I guess Clarke fans will always remember little things, you know, like beating more defenders in a single run than Bridge has managed his entire test career.

@mn5 And how many tries has Clarke scored? For people who go on about finishers, part of finishing is getting in the best position to score....

@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@crazy-horse said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@mn5 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@no-quarter said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

Hansen and Foster have built up a pretty solid body of work when it comes to ridiculous selections and/or playing players out of position to the detriment of that player and the team now.

• Dual playmaker at the RWC - absolute disaster, putting our senior 10 at the back to make way for a rookie that couldn't handle the pressure. Idiotic and has hurt both players form at test level.
• Benching Sam Cane for the RWC semi final when we knew England would try to bash us up front. Seriously what in the God Damn Fuck were they thinking.
• Forging ahead with Bridge on the wing instead of someone that actually offers threat.
• Playing Goodhue at 12 when he was cementing himself in the team as a world class 13. His form suffered badly as a result.
• Playing Jordie on the wing after what I regard as his breakout season for the Canes at 15. Absolutely stuffed his confidence at test level where he ended up trying too much as it's not his natural position at all.
• Not developing Akira Ioane as our 6, instead giving others who aren't up to it chance after chance. If player management isn't the absolute crux of their job then I don't know what they fuck they are doing in the role.

I'm sure I've missed some there. And further to that, instead of addressing the glaring issue of not getting go-forward up front, they've just decided to hell with it let's just spin it wide early and hope for the best. Arrogant and idiotic game plans against world class organised defenses that puts our players under all sorts of pressure and leads to a high error rate.

It's fair to say I have precisely 0 confidence in our coaches and selectors right now.

I agree with all those points except the third. George Bridge has come on in leaps and bounds as a playmaker.

I genuinely don't know if you're being sarcastic or not.

Sarcasm. Bridge is the Fern's new whipping boy.

Justified whipping boy.

To be fair, not his fault. He's playing the way he usually does. And it's not anti-cantab bias either; why isn't Reece coming in for the same attention? Because he's a better winger who creates and finishes.

im not sure, i dont think we can blame him for being selected there, blame foster...but if i got a call to play for the AB's i'd take it

Personally i think he on the wrong side.

AB's have this long list of 11's who are either big and fast (lomu, Ioane, Savea, clarke) or fast and nimble (roko, sivivatu) and 14's that are more of a second fullback (NMS, Smith, Jane)...and now we're sticking someone like Bridge (smith light) on the left and wondering why it looks wrong

It all makes sense, right to left launch, you want it ending with a finisher, not a creator

@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@crazy-horse said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@mn5 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@no-quarter said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

Hansen and Foster have built up a pretty solid body of work when it comes to ridiculous selections and/or playing players out of position to the detriment of that player and the team now.

• Dual playmaker at the RWC - absolute disaster, putting our senior 10 at the back to make way for a rookie that couldn't handle the pressure. Idiotic and has hurt both players form at test level.
• Benching Sam Cane for the RWC semi final when we knew England would try to bash us up front. Seriously what in the God Damn Fuck were they thinking.
• Forging ahead with Bridge on the wing instead of someone that actually offers threat.
• Playing Goodhue at 12 when he was cementing himself in the team as a world class 13. His form suffered badly as a result.
• Playing Jordie on the wing after what I regard as his breakout season for the Canes at 15. Absolutely stuffed his confidence at test level where he ended up trying too much as it's not his natural position at all.
• Not developing Akira Ioane as our 6, instead giving others who aren't up to it chance after chance. If player management isn't the absolute crux of their job then I don't know what they fuck they are doing in the role.

I'm sure I've missed some there. And further to that, instead of addressing the glaring issue of not getting go-forward up front, they've just decided to hell with it let's just spin it wide early and hope for the best. Arrogant and idiotic game plans against world class organised defenses that puts our players under all sorts of pressure and leads to a high error rate.

It's fair to say I have precisely 0 confidence in our coaches and selectors right now.

I agree with all those points except the third. George Bridge has come on in leaps and bounds as a playmaker.

I genuinely don't know if you're being sarcastic or not.

Sarcasm. Bridge is the Fern's new whipping boy.

Justified whipping boy.

To be fair, not his fault. He's playing the way he usually does. And it's not anti-cantab bias either; why isn't Reece coming in for the same attention? Because he's a better winger who creates and finishes.

Nope, definitely anti-Cantab bias. Just look at the shit McCaw and Carter used to cop. It was horrible. And the attacks on young Blackadder are beyond the pale.

In all seriousness, things really are a mess there at the moment. A starting backline with Bridge, Havili, Reiko at 13, and Reece doesn’t fill me with much confidence. I mean if we’re going to shoehorn players into unfamiliar positions we might as well chuck BB on the wing. He’d do a much better job there than most and then we can use JB or DMac at 15.

@rancid-schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@crazy-horse said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@mn5 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@no-quarter said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

Hansen and Foster have built up a pretty solid body of work when it comes to ridiculous selections and/or playing players out of position to the detriment of that player and the team now.

• Dual playmaker at the RWC - absolute disaster, putting our senior 10 at the back to make way for a rookie that couldn't handle the pressure. Idiotic and has hurt both players form at test level.
• Benching Sam Cane for the RWC semi final when we knew England would try to bash us up front. Seriously what in the God Damn Fuck were they thinking.
• Forging ahead with Bridge on the wing instead of someone that actually offers threat.
• Playing Goodhue at 12 when he was cementing himself in the team as a world class 13. His form suffered badly as a result.
• Playing Jordie on the wing after what I regard as his breakout season for the Canes at 15. Absolutely stuffed his confidence at test level where he ended up trying too much as it's not his natural position at all.
• Not developing Akira Ioane as our 6, instead giving others who aren't up to it chance after chance. If player management isn't the absolute crux of their job then I don't know what they fuck they are doing in the role.

I'm sure I've missed some there. And further to that, instead of addressing the glaring issue of not getting go-forward up front, they've just decided to hell with it let's just spin it wide early and hope for the best. Arrogant and idiotic game plans against world class organised defenses that puts our players under all sorts of pressure and leads to a high error rate.

It's fair to say I have precisely 0 confidence in our coaches and selectors right now.

I agree with all those points except the third. George Bridge has come on in leaps and bounds as a playmaker.

I genuinely don't know if you're being sarcastic or not.

Sarcasm. Bridge is the Fern's new whipping boy.

Justified whipping boy.

To be fair, not his fault. He's playing the way he usually does. And it's not anti-cantab bias either; why isn't Reece coming in for the same attention? Because he's a better winger who creates and finishes.

Nope, definitely anti-Cantab bias. Just look at the shit McCaw and Carter used to cop. It was horrible. And the attacks on young Blackadder are beyond the pale.

In all seriousness, things really are a mess there at the moment. A starting backline with Bridge, Havili, Reiko at 13, and Reece doesn’t fill me with much confidence. I mean if we’re going to shoehorn players into unfamiliar positions we might as well chuck BB on the wing. He’d do a much better job there than most and then we can use JB or DMac at 15.

This is the thing. We don't have a centre that brings the traditional skills to the position, it's almost as though our centre is a converted 11...

We also now have an 11 that is not all that impressive at the traditional skill of finishing and beating a man and is being used as a hybrid fullback. For that role, I think he is one of the better options around. It's a role I think they were hoping JB would step up in.

We are being cute in our backline selections. I blame our lack of success against the rush defence. We are complicating things in an effort to find a solution.

@rancid-schnitzel I think Havili had a good game and is a real prospect at 12 if he can replicate his Super form against the big boys. He is robust as well as creative.

@mn5 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@crazy-horse said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@mn5 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@no-quarter said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

Hansen and Foster have built up a pretty solid body of work when it comes to ridiculous selections and/or playing players out of position to the detriment of that player and the team now.

• Dual playmaker at the RWC - absolute disaster, putting our senior 10 at the back to make way for a rookie that couldn't handle the pressure. Idiotic and has hurt both players form at test level.
• Benching Sam Cane for the RWC semi final when we knew England would try to bash us up front. Seriously what in the God Damn Fuck were they thinking.
• Forging ahead with Bridge on the wing instead of someone that actually offers threat.
• Playing Goodhue at 12 when he was cementing himself in the team as a world class 13. His form suffered badly as a result.
• Playing Jordie on the wing after what I regard as his breakout season for the Canes at 15. Absolutely stuffed his confidence at test level where he ended up trying too much as it's not his natural position at all.
• Not developing Akira Ioane as our 6, instead giving others who aren't up to it chance after chance. If player management isn't the absolute crux of their job then I don't know what they fuck they are doing in the role.

I'm sure I've missed some there. And further to that, instead of addressing the glaring issue of not getting go-forward up front, they've just decided to hell with it let's just spin it wide early and hope for the best. Arrogant and idiotic game plans against world class organised defenses that puts our players under all sorts of pressure and leads to a high error rate.

It's fair to say I have precisely 0 confidence in our coaches and selectors right now.

I agree with all those points except the third. George Bridge has come on in leaps and bounds as a playmaker.

I genuinely don't know if you're being sarcastic or not.

Sarcasm. Bridge is the Fern's new whipping boy.

Not entirely true. @Stag and @Stargazer do some top quality white knighting

No, I repeat what I said a few days ago. I've never been a Bridge fanboy. I've only said that he had a great SR in 2019 and he deserved his selection then, esp because RIoane wasn't performing. They had to pick someone better and at that time that was Bridge. Since then, he hasn't delivered, but he's not the only one.

I have not been white knighting Bridge. I'm just fed up with the way a large group of Ferners is using him as the "whipping boy" (to use @Crazy-Horse 's words). Him, or anyone. I just hate the way individual players are singled out, over and over again, and get the sh*t piled on them. That's all.

I dont' think it's anti-cantab bias, but having said that, I can't see a player from the Fern's favourite franchise becoming the Fern's whipping boy ..

@stargazer said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@mn5 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@crazy-horse said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@mn5 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@no-quarter said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

Hansen and Foster have built up a pretty solid body of work when it comes to ridiculous selections and/or playing players out of position to the detriment of that player and the team now.

• Dual playmaker at the RWC - absolute disaster, putting our senior 10 at the back to make way for a rookie that couldn't handle the pressure. Idiotic and has hurt both players form at test level.
• Benching Sam Cane for the RWC semi final when we knew England would try to bash us up front. Seriously what in the God Damn Fuck were they thinking.
• Forging ahead with Bridge on the wing instead of someone that actually offers threat.
• Playing Goodhue at 12 when he was cementing himself in the team as a world class 13. His form suffered badly as a result.
• Playing Jordie on the wing after what I regard as his breakout season for the Canes at 15. Absolutely stuffed his confidence at test level where he ended up trying too much as it's not his natural position at all.
• Not developing Akira Ioane as our 6, instead giving others who aren't up to it chance after chance. If player management isn't the absolute crux of their job then I don't know what they fuck they are doing in the role.

I'm sure I've missed some there. And further to that, instead of addressing the glaring issue of not getting go-forward up front, they've just decided to hell with it let's just spin it wide early and hope for the best. Arrogant and idiotic game plans against world class organised defenses that puts our players under all sorts of pressure and leads to a high error rate.

It's fair to say I have precisely 0 confidence in our coaches and selectors right now.

I agree with all those points except the third. George Bridge has come on in leaps and bounds as a playmaker.

I genuinely don't know if you're being sarcastic or not.

Sarcasm. Bridge is the Fern's new whipping boy.

Not entirely true. @Stag and @Stargazer do some top quality white knighting

No, I repeat what I said a few days ago. I've never been a Bridge fanboy. I've only said that he had a great SR in 2019 and he deserved his selection then, esp because RIoane wasn't performing. They had to pick someone better and at that time that was Bridge. Since then, he hasn't delivered, but he's not the only one.

I have not been white knighting Bridge. I'm just fed up with the way a large group of Ferners is using him as the "whipping boy" (to use @Crazy-Horse 's words). Him, or anyone. I just hate the way individual players are singled out, over and over again, and get the sh*t piled on them. That's all.

I dont' think it's anti-cantab bias, but having said that, I can't see a player from the Fern's favourite franchise becoming the Fern's whipping boy ..

That's because fringe Blues players are rarely selected and persisted with in the ABs. Fringe Cantabs get selected because they play for the team that wins Super Rugby nearly every bloody year, so any gaps in the ABs will invariably go to them - I.E. Bridge when Rieko was affected by injury, as he was running in tries behind a completely dominant pack where other wings in the competition had to work a lot harder.

@stargazer said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@mn5 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@crazy-horse said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@mn5 said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@no-quarter said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

Hansen and Foster have built up a pretty solid body of work when it comes to ridiculous selections and/or playing players out of position to the detriment of that player and the team now.

• Dual playmaker at the RWC - absolute disaster, putting our senior 10 at the back to make way for a rookie that couldn't handle the pressure. Idiotic and has hurt both players form at test level.
• Benching Sam Cane for the RWC semi final when we knew England would try to bash us up front. Seriously what in the God Damn Fuck were they thinking.
• Forging ahead with Bridge on the wing instead of someone that actually offers threat.
• Playing Goodhue at 12 when he was cementing himself in the team as a world class 13. His form suffered badly as a result.
• Playing Jordie on the wing after what I regard as his breakout season for the Canes at 15. Absolutely stuffed his confidence at test level where he ended up trying too much as it's not his natural position at all.
• Not developing Akira Ioane as our 6, instead giving others who aren't up to it chance after chance. If player management isn't the absolute crux of their job then I don't know what they fuck they are doing in the role.

I'm sure I've missed some there. And further to that, instead of addressing the glaring issue of not getting go-forward up front, they've just decided to hell with it let's just spin it wide early and hope for the best. Arrogant and idiotic game plans against world class organised defenses that puts our players under all sorts of pressure and leads to a high error rate.

It's fair to say I have precisely 0 confidence in our coaches and selectors right now.

I agree with all those points except the third. George Bridge has come on in leaps and bounds as a playmaker.

I genuinely don't know if you're being sarcastic or not.

Sarcasm. Bridge is the Fern's new whipping boy.

Not entirely true. @Stag and @Stargazer do some top quality white knighting

No, I repeat what I said a few days ago. I've never been a Bridge fanboy. I've only said that he had a great SR in 2019 and he deserved his selection then, esp because RIoane wasn't performing. They had to pick someone better and at that time that was Bridge. Since then, he hasn't delivered, but he's not the only one.

I have not been white knighting Bridge. I'm just fed up with the way a large group of Ferners is using him as the "whipping boy" (to use @Crazy-Horse 's words). Him, or anyone. I just hate the way individual players are singled out, over and over again, and get the sh*t piled on them. That's all.

I dont' think it's anti-cantab bias, but having said that, I can't see a player from the Fern's favourite franchise becoming the Fern's whipping boy ..

Yeah those damn Chiefs always get a free pass.

@stargazer said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

I dont' think it's anti-cantab bias, but having said that, I can't see a player from the Fern's favourite franchise becoming the Fern's whipping boy ..

Bridge and Ralph are the poster children for system wings- not much individual flair, but super useful in a functioning system. The system just doesn't transfer to international level much, so their limitations get brutally exposed.

If it wasn't Foster selecting him with the track record he's got, the vitriol may not be as severe. The coaching team isn't rated, are perofrming the way I feared they might, and as a result their dodgy selections will cop grief. It's healthy. Otherwise we're just in fan-boi territory; they got selected, therefore they are above criticism.

@stargazer said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

I've never been a Bridge fanboy. I've only said that he had a great SR in 2019 and he deserved his selection then, esp because RIoane wasn't performing.

That's a Fern myth, RIoane out stat-ed Bridge in pretty much every stat you could compare them across in SR in 2019. He scored more tries, made more metres, and made more clean breaks in a season he was injured and in a worse team.

I also think at that time most people were in favour of Bridge's elevation to the All Blacks as another Ben Smith style player, not as our attacking left wing weapon.

@old-samurai-jack said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@mn5 And how many tries has Clarke scored? For people who go on about finishers, part of finishing is getting in the best position to score....

Not really an accurate comparison, Clarke was in the ABs at a particularly dysfunctional time against tier 1 teams, meanwhile 8 out of 11 of Bridge's test tries are against minnows.

@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

@stargazer said in All Blacks vs Fiji 2:

I dont' think it's anti-cantab bias, but having said that, I can't see a player from the Fern's favourite franchise becoming the Fern's whipping boy ..

Bridge and Ralph are the poster children for system wings- not much individual flair, but super useful in a functioning system. The system just doesn't transfer to international level much, so their limitations get brutally exposed.

If it wasn't Foster selecting him with the track record he's got, the vitriol may not be as severe. The coaching team isn't rated, are perofrming the way I feared they might, and as a result their dodgy selections will cop grief. It's healthy. Otherwise we're just in fan-boi territory; they got selected, therefore they are above criticism.

so if we're playing a moanga/Havili combo then bridge might be a more understandable option (still think it should be on the other side) as they can more readily replicate super level, but if we're mixing and matching then more of a individual flair type guys would be better?