So what did we learn from Bledisloe 2?
So a thumping win, great to see, and great to see some captaincy all about winning - take the 3 when it's a gimmie - take a bow Sam Whitelock.
Learnings (to borrow one of the many fcuked up terms that players and coaches seem to spout ad nauseum in interviews).
Learning 1
Jordy Barrett is a 12, and as a centre, Reiko Iaone makes a really good wing. Big Jordy loved it in close, about as much as the old campaigner Foley hated it, seeing the youngest Barrett charging down his defensive channel time and time again! For the first time this season the All Black 12 looked commanding - something we haven't seen since Nonu was making defenders look weak and feable! Keep him there please Fozzie, perhaps at last we've hit it right putting a fullback into the midfield (Cullen, Muliania anyone)! Reiko - in the last two tests has shown a complete lack of ability to put his outsides away into a gap. He's got a man with more gas than Russia outside him, and he doesn't pass him the ball - Will Jordan only needs half a yard of space and it's goodnight nurse. Reiko was the best wing in the world two short years ago, the centre experiment has failed. Move him back to his wing please.
Learning 2
We need to find a 6. Like the midfield being spoilt with the GOAT combination of Smith and Nonu, we've had nothing since another GOAT, or close to it, Kaino retired. Akira is not the answer, Frizell is not the answer, Barrett is not the answer. We've had no one dominant in the tackle like Kaino since, well Kaino, Barrett's a lock who tries hard, Akira a show pony who vanishes when the hard work is needed, and Frizell has had plenty of chances but never cemented the position as his. I think we miss Blackadder, probably out best option in 6 at the moment.
Learning 3
Nepo Laulala and Ofa Tu'uangafasi are not up to test level anymore. Nepo especially. He was so slow getting off the ground after making tackles he was in danger of taking root in the turf. Certainly not the agile player that seems to fill the 1 and 3 jerseys across international teams. Ofa not quite so bad, but still not what you need at test level. And who'd have thunk, Tyrel Lomax earning scrum penalties, making years with the ball in hand, and in general being a very good test level prop. Certainly not me after he was demolished in the Super 12-13-14-15 (whatever it is now) while playing against NSW! Ethan de Groot. The more he plays, the more I like him. Horrible missed tackle early, but after that was fine, and has a bit of attitude about him - almost like a halfback stuck in a props body, and making the best of a bad situation! Richard Loe was not afraid of lettting players know their pedigree, and I think Ethan is the same!
Learning 4
Beauden Barrett is best at fullback. The extra room, and the ability to play his running game make him super dangerous, The fact that he has bugger all of a passing game is masked, so keep him out of 10, 15 is for him. Foster, put on your big boy coaching pants and tell the veteran that's where he's going to play, so suck it up buttercup.
Learning 5
I think we're going to be fine come the next world cup at hooker, Samasoni will be number 1, and between the two veterans Coles and Taylor, we'll get enough time to rest the human wrecking ball at the tail end of matches. Taylor looked a lot more like Taylor, this match, looks like he's getting his mojo back - off field and on perhaps....?
Learning 6
Bring back McCaw... OK, another GOAT, and not just 7, but our loose trio as a trio has been outplayed in pretty much every test this year, generally as much impact as a fly on a windscreen. Only Ardi is consistently earning his keep, and he should be at 7. It's a sad state of affairs when a converted opensider is out best 8. Doesn't say much for Sotutu et al. Are there any youngsters coming through - in all 3 positions?
Learning 7
Plumtree and Moar must have been bad. We had heard that they were only kept on after last seasons tour because of Fozzy, that the players wanted them gone, but... Anyway, the amount of times the players sing Jason Ryans praises must be grating to Foz, and Plums! Another wrong decision from supercoach.
Learning: Or thought 1.
Perofeta, Tuivasa-Sheck, why? You don't try and find out if players are good enough for the All Blacks by picking them and then trying to train them up. They earn their place by form in Super and NPC etc. RTS wasn't trusted to come into the 12 shirt for this test despite the first and second choice 12s being injured. A project player? A waster of space selection. He won't be running out in a RWC knockout game unless there are at least 5 centre injuries - Reiko, Jordy, Anton, Jack, David... Perofeta, poor bugger, here's 90 seconds to prove yourself, win the deciding test against Ireland. Another wasted jersey. The selection of Fakatava as a different type of halfback from Smith. Then we use Smith-lite, Christie off the bench. Webber should have been there ahead of all 3, the best running halfback in NZ, and his pass in not half bad either, and his support play and outright pace unmatched by any 9 in the world.
Ummmmmmm 1
I think that's about it, so are we on the right track for nextx years RWC? No. We've still got a coach that is too bloody nice when it comes to giving players 900 chances. We're probably lucky Comin Meads is supping a beer with Prince Phillip and Lizzy a tth emoment, otherwise Fozzy would have given ole Pinetree another chance. So kiss another win goodbye, even if we play well. France is going to be too strong at home and will win their first trophy after 2, or is it 3 finals. They play good rugby too, so good luck to them!
@BartMan said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
So a thumping win, great to see, and great to see some captaincy all about winning - take the 3 when it's a gimmie - take a bow Sam Whitelock.
Learnings (to borrow one of the many fcuked up terms that players and coaches seem to spout ad nauseum in interviews).
Learning 1: Jordy Barrett is a 12, and as a centre, Reiko Iaone makes a really good wing.
Big Jordy loved it in close, about as much as the old campaigner Foley hated it, seeing the youngest Barrett charging down his defensive channel time and time again! For the first time this season the All Black 12 looked commanding - something we haven't seen since Nonu was making defenders look weak and feable! Keep him there please Fozzie, perhaps at last we've hit it right putting a fullback into the midfield (Cullen, Muliania anyone)!
Reiko - in the last two tests has shown a complete lack of ability to put his outsides away into a gap. He's got a man with more gas than Russia outside him, and he doesn't pass him the ball - Will Jordan only needs half a yard of space and it's goodnight nurse. Reiko was the best wing in the world two short years ago, the centre experiment has failed. Move him back to his wing please.Learning 2: We need to find a 6. Like the midfield being spoilt with the GOAT combination of Smith and Nonu, we've had nothing since another GOAT, or close to it, Kaino retired. Akira is not the answer, Frizell is not the answer, Barrett is not the answer. We've had no one dominant in the tackle like Kaino since, well Kaino, Barrett's a lock who tries hard, Akira a show pony who vanishes when the hard work is needed, and Frizell has had plenty of chances but never cemented the position as his. I think we miss Blackadder, probably out best option in 6 at the moment.
Learning 3: Nepo Laulala and Ofa Tu'uangafasi are not up to test level anymore. Nepo especially. He was so slow getting off the ground after making tackles he was in danger of taking root in the turf. Certainly not the agile player that seems to fill the 1 and 3 jerseys across international teams. Ofa not quite so bad, but still not what you need at test level. And who'd have thunk, Tyrel Lomax earning scrum penalties, making years with the ball in hand, and in general being a very good test level prop. Certainly not me after he was demolished in the Super 12-13-14-15 (whatever it is now) while playing against NSW! Ethan de Groot. The more he plays, the more I like him. Horrible missed tackle early, but after that was fine, and has a bit of attitude about him - almost like a halfback stuck in a props body, and making the best of a bad situation! Richard Loe was not afraid of lettting players know their pedigree, and I think Ethan is the same!
Learning 4; Beauden Barrett is best at fullback. The extra room, and the ability to play his running game make him super dangerous, The fact that he has bugger all of a passing game is masked, so keep him out of 10, 15 is for him.
Foster, put on your big boy coaching pants and tell the veteran that's where he's going to play, so suck it up buttercup.Learning 4: I think we're going to be fine come the next world cup at hooker, Samasoni will be number 1, and between the two veterans Coles and Taylor, we'll get enough time to rest the human wrecking ball at the tail end of matches. Taylor looked a lot more like Taylor, this match, looks like he's getting his mojo back - off field and on perhaps....?
Learning 5: Bring back McCaw... OK, another GOAT, and not just 7, but our loose trio as a trio has been outplayed in pretty much every test this year, generally as much impact as a fly on a windscreen. Only Ardi is consistently earning his keep, and he should be at 7. It's a sad state of affairs when a converted opensider is out best 8. Doesn't say much for Sotutu et al. Are there any youngsters coming through - in all 3 positions?
Learning 7: Plumtree and Moar must have been bad. We had heard that they were only kept on after last seasons tour because of Fozzy, that the players wanted them gone, but... Anyway, the amount of times the players sing Jason Ryans praises must be grating to Foz, and Plums! Another wrong decision from supercoach.
Learning: Or thought 1. Perofeta, Tuivasa-Sheck, why? You don't try and find out if players are good enough for the All Blacks by picking them and then trying to train them up. They earn their place by form in Super and NPC etc. RTS wasn't trusted to come into the 12 shirt for this test despite the first and second choice 12s being injured. A project player? A waster of space selection. He won't be running out in a RWC knockout game unless there are at least 5 centre injuries - Reiko, Jordy, Anton, Jack, David... Perofeta, poor bugger, here's 90 seconds to prove yourself, win the deciding test against Ireland. Another wasted jersey. The selection of Fakatava as a different type of halfback from Smith. Then we use Smith-lite, Christie off the bench. Webber should have been there ahead of all 3, the best running halfback in NZ, and his pass in not half bad either, and his support play and outright pace unmatched by any 9 in the world.
Ummmmmmm 1: I think that's about it, so are we on the right track for nextx years RWC? No. We've still got a coach that is too bloody nice when it comes to giving players 900 chances. We're probably lucky Comin Meads is supping a beer with Prince Phillip and Lizzy a tth emoment, otherwise Fozzy would have given ole Pinetree another chance. So kiss another win goodbye, even if we play well. France is going to be too strong at home and will win their first trophy after 2, or is it 3 finals. They play good rugby too, so good luck to them!
So much to agree with, but much I don’t. Would be good to be able to vote individually on each learning.
@BartMan said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
So a thumping win, great to see, and great to see some captaincy all about winning - take the 3 when it's a gimmie - take a bow Sam Whitelock.
Learnings (to borrow one of the many fcuked up terms that players and coaches seem to spout ad nauseum in interviews).
Learning 1: Jordy Barrett is a 12, and as a centre, Reiko Iaone makes a really good wing.
Big Jordy loved it in close, about as much as the old campaigner Foley hated it, seeing the youngest Barrett charging down his defensive channel time and time again! For the first time this season the All Black 12 looked commanding - something we haven't seen since Nonu was making defenders look weak and feable! Keep him there please Fozzie, perhaps at last we've hit it right putting a fullback into the midfield (Cullen, Muliania anyone)!
Reiko - in the last two tests has shown a complete lack of ability to put his outsides away into a gap. He's got a man with more gas than Russia outside him, and he doesn't pass him the ball - Will Jordan only needs half a yard of space and it's goodnight nurse. Reiko was the best wing in the world two short years ago, the centre experiment has failed. Move him back to his wing please.Learning 2: We need to find a 6. Like the midfield being spoilt with the GOAT combination of Smith and Nonu, we've had nothing since another GOAT, or close to it, Kaino retired. Akira is not the answer, Frizell is not the answer, Barrett is not the answer. We've had no one dominant in the tackle like Kaino since, well Kaino, Barrett's a lock who tries hard, Akira a show pony who vanishes when the hard work is needed, and Frizell has had plenty of chances but never cemented the position as his. I think we miss Blackadder, probably out best option in 6 at the moment.
Learning 3: Nepo Laulala and Ofa Tu'uangafasi are not up to test level anymore. Nepo especially. He was so slow getting off the ground after making tackles he was in danger of taking root in the turf. Certainly not the agile player that seems to fill the 1 and 3 jerseys across international teams. Ofa not quite so bad, but still not what you need at test level. And who'd have thunk, Tyrel Lomax earning scrum penalties, making years with the ball in hand, and in general being a very good test level prop. Certainly not me after he was demolished in the Super 12-13-14-15 (whatever it is now) while playing against NSW! Ethan de Groot. The more he plays, the more I like him. Horrible missed tackle early, but after that was fine, and has a bit of attitude about him - almost like a halfback stuck in a props body, and making the best of a bad situation! Richard Loe was not afraid of lettting players know their pedigree, and I think Ethan is the same!
Learning 4; Beauden Barrett is best at fullback. The extra room, and the ability to play his running game make him super dangerous, The fact that he has bugger all of a passing game is masked, so keep him out of 10, 15 is for him.
Foster, put on your big boy coaching pants and tell the veteran that's where he's going to play, so suck it up buttercup.Learning 4: I think we're going to be fine come the next world cup at hooker, Samasoni will be number 1, and between the two veterans Coles and Taylor, we'll get enough time to rest the human wrecking ball at the tail end of matches. Taylor looked a lot more like Taylor, this match, looks like he's getting his mojo back - off field and on perhaps....?
Learning 5: Bring back McCaw... OK, another GOAT, and not just 7, but our loose trio as a trio has been outplayed in pretty much every test this year, generally as much impact as a fly on a windscreen. Only Ardi is consistently earning his keep, and he should be at 7. It's a sad state of affairs when a converted opensider is out best 8. Doesn't say much for Sotutu et al. Are there any youngsters coming through - in all 3 positions?
Learning 7: Plumtree and Moar must have been bad. We had heard that they were only kept on after last seasons tour because of Fozzy, that the players wanted them gone, but... Anyway, the amount of times the players sing Jason Ryans praises must be grating to Foz, and Plums! Another wrong decision from supercoach.
Learning: Or thought 1. Perofeta, Tuivasa-Sheck, why? You don't try and find out if players are good enough for the All Blacks by picking them and then trying to train them up. They earn their place by form in Super and NPC etc. RTS wasn't trusted to come into the 12 shirt for this test despite the first and second choice 12s being injured. A project player? A waster of space selection. He won't be running out in a RWC knockout game unless there are at least 5 centre injuries - Reiko, Jordy, Anton, Jack, David... Perofeta, poor bugger, here's 90 seconds to prove yourself, win the deciding test against Ireland. Another wasted jersey. The selection of Fakatava as a different type of halfback from Smith. Then we use Smith-lite, Christie off the bench. Webber should have been there ahead of all 3, the best running halfback in NZ, and his pass in not half bad either, and his support play and outright pace unmatched by any 9 in the world.
Ummmmmmm 1: I think that's about it, so are we on the right track for nextx years RWC? No. We've still got a coach that is too bloody nice when it comes to giving players 900 chances. We're probably lucky Comin Meads is supping a beer with Prince Phillip and Lizzy a tth emoment, otherwise Fozzy would have given ole Pinetree another chance. So kiss another win goodbye, even if we play well. France is going to be too strong at home and will win their first trophy after 2, or is it 3 finals. They play good rugby too, so good luck to them!
More gas than Russia
Well played
@BartMan Yet another excellent performance from Rieko Ioane, made huge metres, excellent decision making, rushed up on defence when needed, and got a turn over - he's not a centre! Don't you get tired of pushing premeditated takes? He was excellent, and I challenge anyone to name a better centre since 2015.
Learning #1 you get half a point for identifying what everyone else saw: Jordie was commanding at 12. You lose half a point for the dribble about Rieko being a wing.
Learning #2 is no one individually has had a stand out game that screams I'm the next Kaino. Blackadder might have the engine for it, but not the impact.
Learning #3 agreed on Laulala. Lomax had a big game tonight. A game I didn't think he had in him.
Learning #4. No argument if we can get a good five-eighth.
Learning #5 Samisoni is clearly our best hooker. Someone young needs to step up and make the case for either Coles or Codie to step back.
Learning #6 Ardie isn't an openside - he hasn't played there in years. If Cane can't play, Dalton is next in line.
@mariner4life He's had four blinders in the last five tests. Yet dickheads will just assume that because we aren't making spectacular wide moves, while scoring 40 points, it must because we have a defective centre. Moronic.
@Tim said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
@mariner4life He's had four blinders in the last five tests. Yet dickheads will just assume that because we aren't making spectacular wide moves, while scoring 40 points, it must because we have a defective centre. Moronic.
IT'S 1996 AND THE CENTRE SHOULD PASS TO THE WINGER WHO HAS 15M OF SPACE
DEEEEERP
@Tim said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
@mariner4life He's had four blinders in the last five tests. Yet dickheads will just assume that because we aren't making spectacular wide moves, while scoring 40 points, it must because we have a defective centre. Moronic.
He has played very well but still needs to improve a lot in putting his wingers away and also in nailing breaks. He has made a few costly errors there so I wouldn't call it all blinders. I think he is better as a winger still. But we have no better centre available at the moment so all good. And his defensive efforts have been far better than those around him so kudos there too.
@Tim said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
@mariner4life He's had four blinders in the last five tests. Yet dickheads will just assume that because we aren't making spectacular wide moves, while scoring 40 points, it must because we have a defective centre. Moronic.
I think he's the best option at 13 and has come on in spades, but has some work-on's - e. g. he needs to give his support players/wingers more space. There have been times when he's made a blistering break but edged towards the touchline which cramps his attack options.
@BartMan Great post. You spark Rugby debate like no other poster but most of that I agree with.
Disagreement:
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I wouldn't write off Ofa T yet. Get him back playing more often and he's still a good test prop.
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Dalton Papali'i's no Richie McCaw ( who is?) but he's developing into a bloody good player. I see him a big part of the ABs next two or three RWC challenges.
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I think Akira Ioane might be our best bet at 6. His power is something special and he's handling is excellent for a big guy. He needs to up his core fitness and workrate to become a world class player. Is it worth the NZR employing a trainer to work 1-1 with him? Next best 6 = Ethan Blackadder who has the work ethic but nothing like Akira's power or talent.
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Reiko's fine at 13.
@Dan54 In fairness to RTS, he hasn't really had a go, not that he will now with JB virtually making the jersey his own after last night.
@TeWaio said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
Akira seems to run really high into contact a lot. I'd love to see him just barrell straight into people low, like Samisoni does so well.
Like Wilson did! Great tackle by de Groot and Ardi.
@Victor-Meldrew said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
@Tim said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
@mariner4life He's had four blinders in the last five tests. Yet dickheads will just assume that because we aren't making spectacular wide moves, while scoring 40 points, it must because we have a defective centre. Moronic.
I think he's the best option at 13 and has come on in spades, but has some work-on's - e. g. he needs to give his support players/wingers more space. There have been times when he's made a blistering break but edged towards the touchline which cramps his attack options.
Yes perhaps Reiko is currently best option with injuries etc. But needs to learn to put his wingers into space. You know, centre stuff!
It is possible that the players are coached to take the ball to ground if they don't think a pass is on. RI I think early in his 13 journey did push a lot of passes that went to ground. Maybe coaches would rather recycle and build pressure. I guess it's a balance because Jordan was clearly in a good position last night and he missed him.
We also get the benefit of multiple replays etc and players make split second decisions, sometimes they get it wrong.
I think he is making metres, making tackles and is doing a lot of his core roles well.
Link play maybe a work on as Sotutu and Clarke have also missed some obvious overlaps recently.
I actually think Paps and Akira complement each other very well. Our ruck and pillar defence was bloody good tonight with both stopping the Wallabies in their tracks often holding up the player slowing it down.
For some reason we judge our loosies off their attack more than their D and I would argue the tight D work is just as important and the loose forward unit did well tonight.
When you have props like Lomax and locks carting it up the gets it makes it much easier on the backs and smith.
It is also obvious that the forwards are now dragging players past the ball in a ruck to force the ruck defence line backwards. There was multiple times the ball was a good metre or two behind where the ruck finished. This no doubt creates more space so props to the coach that has figured that out.
The Wallabies were truly awful with very poor discipline and it is hard to really gauge out performance but I will take three on the trot after how we started. Clearly Schmidt and Ryan have been positive changes and I look forward to the northern tour.
I think off that break RI could have passed to Will, Koribete may or may not have caught Will who in turn could have passed back to RI...don't think it was a bad non pass, but a could have passed.
I think guys like DP, HS, RTS,FF, TV and others have all been given far too little time out there to be making any kind of call on them.
Of that bunch, DP is the one I like most, potential captain, arguably the best 7 in super rugby, then got splinters most of the test campaign.
AI is an interesting one, physically he should be the best player on the park, but often isn't...he did some good stuff last night but still seems to drift in and out of games, think he has way more upside than Frizzell, but also see the value of the energiser bunny, Blackadder.
Was nice having a physical direct running 12, rather than a lightweight 12 and using him to try and bash his way through! Havili has his skills, but doesn't demand attention from opposition as a bigger 12 will.
Was great to see the 2 old locks playing well, feeding off one another's energy, winding back the clock...can they hang on for another 12 months?
Still huge concerns with our ability to do the basics, I mean we had what, 30 mins in the last 2 weeks with a numerical advantage yetfailed to capitalise...and the other not so small elephant in the room, our defence.
We seem good on our line more often when no depth to worry about but is this.just good scramble, but outside this we are still so unstructured and ill disciplined (in being able to hold our line) often we are staggered, width is all over the show...
All told, I think more positives than negatives.
@taniwharugby said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
I think off that break RI could have passed to Will, Koribete may or may not have caught Will who in turn could have passed back to RI...don't think it was a bad non pass, but a could have passed.
I think guys like DP, HS, RTS,FF, TV and others have all been given far too little time out there to be making any kind of call on them.
Of that bunch, DP is the one I like most, potential captain, arguably the best 7 in super rugby, then got splinters most of the test campaign.
AI is an interesting one, physically he should be the best player on the park, but often isn't...he did some good stuff last night but still seems to drift in and out of games, think he has way more upside than Frizzell, but also see the value of the energiser bunny, Blackadder.
Was nice having a physical direct running 12, rather that a lightweight 12 and using like he is a heavier physical specimen! Havili has his skills, but doesn't demand attention from opposition as a bigger 12 will.
Was great to see the 2 old locks playing well, feeding off one another's energy, winding back the clock...can they hang on for another 12 months?
Still huge concerns with our ability to do the basics, I mean we had what, 30 mins in the last 2 weeks with a numerical advantage yetfailed to capitalise...and the other not so small elephant in the room, our defence.
We seem good on our line more often when no depth to worry about but is this.just good scramble, but outside this we are still so unstructured and ill disciplined (in being able to hold our line) often we are staggered, width is all over the show...
All told, I think more positives than negatives.
That was a blown try, I was high up above the halfway line, and Ioane not passing was top level hungus, appalling decision. Almost dead cert try blown.
I've learnt that the ABs shape and accuracy first half was terrible, really. And Ozzie played like the ninth ranked team in the world, see we were 17 up somehow. Looked pretty bad live
@BartMan said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
Taylor looked a lot more like Taylor, this match, looks like he's getting his mojo back
Heresy
Watching on tv, it seemed that Ioane lost his footing a little when he should have been shaping up to pass. When he looked right, it looked like the presence of MK made it a riskier pass.
He has been great with ball in hand and his extra pace in defence has been invaluable and saves certain tries, but there is a nagging feeling that he isn’t distributing as well, especially when making a break.
@taniwharugby said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
I think off that break RI could have passed to Will, Koribete may or may not have caught Will who in turn could have passed back to RI...don't think it was a bad non pass, but a could have passed.
Agree 100%
@chimoaus I remember watching that video circulating of mccaw giving commentary of the 15 wc final ,
And watching the game live there were things I was blowing up over , like why is smith kicking possession away when we get into attacking position etc
Then watching the video mccaw would say , we believed if we kicked here this would happen blah blah blah ,
You just never know what is their decision or what they have been instructed to do .
@chimoaus said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
The Wallabies were truly awful with very poor discipline and it is hard to really gauge out performance but I will take three on the trot after how we started.
This.
Havili must be feeling unlucky. One head knock had him go from starting All Black to suddenly possibly missing out on a World Cup berth if ALB and/or Goodhue are fit and in form.
In saying that though, we have to temper Jordie's performance (and All Blacks performance in general) with the fact that the Wallaby are currently 9th in the world.
@Frye said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
Havili must be feeling unlucky. One head knock had him go from starting All Black to suddenly possibly missing out on a World Cup berth if ALB and/or Goodhue are fit and in form.
In saying that though, we have to temper Jordie's performance (and All Blacks performance in general) with the fact that the Wallaby are currently 9th in the world.
He never felt like the answer. After a few games up north we will see if JB can nail 12 down or not. Unless Foster hands the job back to DH and we learn nothing
@canefan said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
@Frye said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
Havili must be feeling unlucky. One head knock had him go from starting All Black to suddenly possibly missing out on a World Cup berth if ALB and/or Goodhue are fit and in form.
In saying that though, we have to temper Jordie's performance (and All Blacks performance in general) with the fact that the Wallaby are currently 9th in the world.
He never felt like the answer. After a few games up north we will see if JB can nail 12 down or not. Unless Foster hands the job back to DH and we learn nothing
To be fair Japan,Scotland and Wales will not give us too many answers.England maybe will.
@Chris said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
@canefan said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
@Frye said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
Havili must be feeling unlucky. One head knock had him go from starting All Black to suddenly possibly missing out on a World Cup berth if ALB and/or Goodhue are fit and in form.
In saying that though, we have to temper Jordie's performance (and All Blacks performance in general) with the fact that the Wallaby are currently 9th in the world.
He never felt like the answer. After a few games up north we will see if JB can nail 12 down or not. Unless Foster hands the job back to DH and we learn nothing
To be fair Japan,Scotland and Wales will not give us too many answers.England maybe will.
Wins may not but losses might certainly change the landscape.
@Frye said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
@Chris said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
@canefan said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
@Frye said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
Havili must be feeling unlucky. One head knock had him go from starting All Black to suddenly possibly missing out on a World Cup berth if ALB and/or Goodhue are fit and in form.
In saying that though, we have to temper Jordie's performance (and All Blacks performance in general) with the fact that the Wallaby are currently 9th in the world.
He never felt like the answer. After a few games up north we will see if JB can nail 12 down or not. Unless Foster hands the job back to DH and we learn nothing
To be fair Japan,Scotland and Wales will not give us too many answers.England maybe will.
Wins may not but losses might certainly change the landscape.
Fuck that would, but losing to Japan,Scotland or Wales unthinkable.
Well ,so was losing to Argentina at home and losing a series to Ireland at home.
@Chris said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
@canefan said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
@Frye said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
Havili must be feeling unlucky. One head knock had him go from starting All Black to suddenly possibly missing out on a World Cup berth if ALB and/or Goodhue are fit and in form.
In saying that though, we have to temper Jordie's performance (and All Blacks performance in general) with the fact that the Wallaby are currently 9th in the world.
He never felt like the answer. After a few games up north we will see if JB can nail 12 down or not. Unless Foster hands the job back to DH and we learn nothing
To be fair **Japan,Scotland and Wales will not give us too many answers.**England maybe will.
You probably thought that about Ireland and Argentina earlier this year.
@MN5 said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
@Chris said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
@canefan said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
@Frye said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
Havili must be feeling unlucky. One head knock had him go from starting All Black to suddenly possibly missing out on a World Cup berth if ALB and/or Goodhue are fit and in form.
In saying that though, we have to temper Jordie's performance (and All Blacks performance in general) with the fact that the Wallaby are currently 9th in the world.
He never felt like the answer. After a few games up north we will see if JB can nail 12 down or not. Unless Foster hands the job back to DH and we learn nothing
To be fair **Japan,Scotland and Wales will not give us too many answers.**England maybe will.
You probably thought that about Ireland and Argentina earlier this year.
LOL Now I am not looking forward to the EOYT.
@Chris said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
@MN5 said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
@Chris said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
@canefan said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
@Frye said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
Havili must be feeling unlucky. One head knock had him go from starting All Black to suddenly possibly missing out on a World Cup berth if ALB and/or Goodhue are fit and in form.
In saying that though, we have to temper Jordie's performance (and All Blacks performance in general) with the fact that the Wallaby are currently 9th in the world.
He never felt like the answer. After a few games up north we will see if JB can nail 12 down or not. Unless Foster hands the job back to DH and we learn nothing
To be fair **Japan,Scotland and Wales will not give us too many answers.**England maybe will.
You probably thought that about Ireland and Argentina earlier this year.
LOL Now I am not looking forward to the EOYT.
Scotland and Wales were probably quite excited about meeting the ABs on tour a few weeks ago. Maybe not quite so much now. I'm keen to see how the group respond to going away with Ryan and Schmidt
@Machpants said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
@taniwharugby said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
I think off that break RI could have passed to Will, Koribete may or may not have caught Will who in turn could have passed back to RI...don't think it was a bad non pass, but a could have passed.
I think guys like DP, HS, RTS,FF, TV and others have all been given far too little time out there to be making any kind of call on them.
Of that bunch, DP is the one I like most, potential captain, arguably the best 7 in super rugby, then got splinters most of the test campaign.
AI is an interesting one, physically he should be the best player on the park, but often isn't...he did some good stuff last night but still seems to drift in and out of games, think he has way more upside than Frizzell, but also see the value of the energiser bunny, Blackadder.
Was nice having a physical direct running 12, rather that a lightweight 12 and using like he is a heavier physical specimen! Havili has his skills, but doesn't demand attention from opposition as a bigger 12 will.
Was great to see the 2 old locks playing well, feeding off one another's energy, winding back the clock...can they hang on for another 12 months?
Still huge concerns with our ability to do the basics, I mean we had what, 30 mins in the last 2 weeks with a numerical advantage yetfailed to capitalise...and the other not so small elephant in the room, our defence.
We seem good on our line more often when no depth to worry about but is this.just good scramble, but outside this we are still so unstructured and ill disciplined (in being able to hold our line) often we are staggered, width is all over the show...
All told, I think more positives than negatives.
That was a blown try, I was high up above the halfway line, and Ioane not passing was top level hungus, appalling decision. Almost dead cert try blown.
When he looked towards Jordan, Jordan was potentially obscured by Koroibete. Had Rieko had a subsequent look a split second later then he may well have.
@BartMan said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
@Victor-Meldrew said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
@Tim said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
@mariner4life He's had four blinders in the last five tests. Yet dickheads will just assume that because we aren't making spectacular wide moves, while scoring 40 points, it must because we have a defective centre. Moronic.
I think he's the best option at 13 and has come on in spades, but has some work-on's - e. g. he needs to give his support players/wingers more space. There have been times when he's made a blistering break but edged towards the touchline which cramps his attack options.
Yes perhaps Reiko is currently best option with injuries etc. But needs to learn to put his wingers into space. You know, centre stuff!
I think he's getting there in that regard - though I still think the way the wings & FB position themselves needs improvement, even when Reiko isn't involved.
It's more his broken field play I have a problem with. It's almost as if he can't make up his mind to gas it himself on the outside or pass.
@Frye said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
Havili must be feeling unlucky. One head knock had him go from starting All Black to suddenly possibly missing out on a World Cup berth if ALB and/or Goodhue are fit and in form.
Havili's utility value will put him in good stead for a World Cup spot even if he can't regain the 12 shirt.
@KiwiMurph said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
@Frye said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
Havili must be feeling unlucky. One head knock had him go from starting All Black to suddenly possibly missing out on a World Cup berth if ALB and/or Goodhue are fit and in form.Havili's utility value will put him in good stead for a World Cup spot even if he can't regain the 12 shirt.
Room will be found for McKenzie before Havili I think. I'm not ruling him out but the picture has just become a lot less clear.
@antipodean said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
@Machpants said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
@taniwharugby said in So what did we learn from Bled2?:
I think off that break RI could have passed to Will, Koribete may or may not have caught Will who in turn could have passed back to RI...don't think it was a bad non pass, but a could have passed.
I think guys like DP, HS, RTS,FF, TV and others have all been given far too little time out there to be making any kind of call on them.
Of that bunch, DP is the one I like most, potential captain, arguably the best 7 in super rugby, then got splinters most of the test campaign.
AI is an interesting one, physically he should be the best player on the park, but often isn't...he did some good stuff last night but still seems to drift in and out of games, think he has way more upside than Frizzell, but also see the value of the energiser bunny, Blackadder.
Was nice having a physical direct running 12, rather that a lightweight 12 and using like he is a heavier physical specimen! Havili has his skills, but doesn't demand attention from opposition as a bigger 12 will.
Was great to see the 2 old locks playing well, feeding off one another's energy, winding back the clock...can they hang on for another 12 months?
Still huge concerns with our ability to do the basics, I mean we had what, 30 mins in the last 2 weeks with a numerical advantage yetfailed to capitalise...and the other not so small elephant in the room, our defence.
We seem good on our line more often when no depth to worry about but is this.just good scramble, but outside this we are still so unstructured and ill disciplined (in being able to hold our line) often we are staggered, width is all over the show...
All told, I think more positives than negatives.
That was a blown try, I was high up above the halfway line, and Ioane not passing was top level hungus, appalling decision. Almost dead cert try blown.
When he looked towards Jordan, Jordan was potentially obscured by Koroibete. Had Rieko had a subsequent look a split second later then he may well have.
If he had passed, and Marika had got in the middle to block the pass (which looked possible) then I bet many of the same people complaining he didn't pass would be complaining he did.
@KiwiMurph QT is the likely unlucky one. Ignoring the injury, JB and DH are both kicking 12s.