NZ vs Aus: Man what a hiding. Again.
Well, that was really crap once again.
As has been mentioned, the key difference between the sides is the bowling. Not that ours have been bad, but I think every batting lineup in the world (including theirs) would struggle against their quicks backed up by the very consistent Lyon in those conditions. We just haven't been able to survive the new ball so by the time their big boys start to tire, the damage has been well and truly done.
Losing Ferg to injury has turned out to be a real blow for us. We really needed that point of difference against a very disciplined Aus batting lineup. They've been batting uncharacteristically slow, grinding our bowlers down and not giving us anything. Wags short stuff has been effective because it's something different to medium pace swing bowling, and I think Ferg (once his nerves settled) could have made life a lot tougher for them.
Santner should have been dropped for Astle or Henry. He's not good enough at either discipline in tests so is really a waste of a spot. His bowling really let the pressure off Aus in this test, going at 5s without looking threatening was unforgivable. Just don't think his game is suited to test match cricket.
Anyway, the positives:
- Wagner as always. Such a consistent performer, he's the perfect third seamer in that he offers a point of difference, but can also bowl long spells when the going gets tough.
- Blundell. Apparently Bryan Young made the team in similar circumstances - had given up the gloves and was slotted into the opening position out of desperation against Aus. Would be great if Blundell can fill that opening slot for us - albeit with a much higher average than Young ended up with! He looked good in the first innings and was absolutely superb in the second. Can handle the pace and bounce easily, so there's no reason he can't make the position his own. Before the 2nd test I said I was far from convinced he would fare any better - boy did he prove me wrong, the find of the tour by miles.
- Warner is still yet to crack a 50 this tour.
That's it though. Two shining lights in one of the darkest tours in recent memory.
The negatives - far too many to list, but the ones that stand out:
- Kane's form was a little patchy leading into this series, and he's been somewhat found out by the Aus quicks. They've worked him over and he's ended up playing some really poor shots to get out - shows mentally he's not there. If we wanted to have a chance this series we needed him to score big.
- After Ross made 80 in the first test in some of the toughest conditions you'll see, he's not fired a single shot. Again we needed so much more from him, our two gun batsmen have not been able to handle the Aussie quicks this series.
- Boult and Southee were good but didn't get the early wickets we needed. If they don't get the early breakthroughs with the new ball it becomes fairly easy to bat time against a medium pace attack with an older ball. It's amazing Wags got so many wickets in those circumstances.
- And finally, BOWLING FIRST! WTF! That was the single stupidest decision at the toss I've ever seen. At 1-0 down I was hoping, praying that we'd win the toss to give us a sporting chance. Aus must have fallen off their bloody chairs when they saw us choose to bowl. What the hell were we thinking? On that last point, let's run through a quick hypothetical to try and illustrate how bad that decision was:
Let's say we manage to knock Aus over for 250. We'd all be stoked with that and people would say the decision to bowl was justified. Then we come out to bat and really apply ourselves, getting to 400. Again we'd all be over the moon and think we are dominating this test. Aus then come out to bat again and dig in, grinding themselves through to 350 which again we'd have to be happy with.
But hang on, they've now set us 200 to win on a day 5 pitch against the best bowling lineup in the world. That would be absolutely massive pressure on our batsmen, trying to handle their quicks steaming in on a dodgy wicket. BATTING LAST IS ALWAYS BY FAR THE HARDEST THING TO DO! There's a reason the highest ever test chases makes for such dismal reading, it's damn near impossible.
Bowling first 100% played into their strengths because it meant at the business end of the test they'd have their worlds best bowlers winning it for them, not their batsmen under pressure. It was such an incredibly short-sighted decision and smacked of us running scared, wanting to delay having to face their quicks as long as possible. Not to mention the fact that it's harder coming out to bat when you're 400+ runs behind and their bowlers have plenty of runs to play with.
I think choosing to bowl first was the most disappointing part of the whole series. It was so defeatist and it was really hard to see us getting anything more than a draw out of the match from there.
So anyway on to Sydney and we really have nothing to lose. I'd like to see us play some aggressive cricket and restore a little bit of pride, even if it is a dead rubber. Picking a spinner that actually spins it would also be a step in the right direction.
@Mokey said in Cricket: NZ vs Aus:
Surely must retain his spot in Sydney, too.
Without a doubt.
He’ll have an extended run there now.
I’m not putting a line through Raval’s name just yet though, he was extremely consistent before he hit this bad run of form. If he finds his form again for Auckland I’m sure he’ll still be in the mix.
Well this is not going to plan at all!
I’ve been ensconced in enemy territory since the last Boxing Day Test and have to say we have been very bloody average!
To beat Oz in Oz you need to have a couple of players at the top of their game! Can’t knock Wagner but can’t find anyone else who has played to their true potential so we’re getting our asses kicked....
Congratulations to Blundell on his well deserved ton but who decided his nude balls were the ultimate attacking weapon after lunch yesterday?
Weird shit ????
So no one gives The Craps a snowflakes chance in hell in the Sydney Test?
Time to double down and put the house on them because we all know they’ll get smashed ?
@Donsteppa said in Cricket: NZ vs Aus:
Does anyone know enough about Kyle Jamieson to say whether he's a realistic option to replace Boult at this stage, rather than Henry taking that spot?
Otherwise Astle in for Santner.
He's very tall but doesn't have much pace about him. I would pick Henry over him (as poor as Henry's test record is).
@antipodean said in Cricket: NZ vs Aus:
Watching the capitulation, I wonder if Jordie actually arranged to be kicked out of the MCG.
Good to see some folk pushing back on his exit, pretty crap that its described as police evicting 2 New Zealanders for bad behaviour. It's complete BS, on boxing day I saw at least 10 guys removed for crimes ranging from sculling a beer, to making a cup snake, to standing near someone sculling a beer to being seated in the general vicinity of someone making a cup snake. Other mates at the ground in other areas saw the same thing, would have been hundreds removed. Officers and security were clearly given a mandate to remove young blokes.
@Rembrandt I guess the Boxing day test will go the same way as the Welly sevens. No fun allowed.
"He had half a beer … and the boys said/chanted 'skull'. Jordie was seated down and finished his half vessel of mid-strength, over-priced 'Great Northern' and a security guard walked over and requested he leave.
It would be good if the press stopped calling it the police that did it. Security guards are like immigration officials, some people just shouldn't be given a uniform and get all overcome with their authority.
My wife will now feel justified to evict me every time I mow the lawns on a hot day.
@Snowy Yeah it was pretty gross what was going on. To be fair I was no fan of the crazyness of the early 2000's in NZ when going to a match would guarantee you'd be drenched in beer from piston wristed gibbons who Mexican wave with full cups. This though was a massive over-reaction. Had a women cop taking names of a whole row of guys while a bloke cop was trying to force a reaction by being massive jerk booting guys literally sitting their quietly watching the cricket and when they questioned why it was all 'Because I said so'. I went to the bathroom after the first load of guys were evicted and there was a 8 person security/police huddle near the entrance discussing who they wanted to turf next. I know I'll not go back there for the cricket, just a massive display of authoritarian wankery left with a bitter taste and not just due to the Black caps performance or that expensive shitty brown water that the MCG calls 'beer'.
@Rembrandt said in Cricket: NZ vs Aus:
Had a women cop taking names of a whole row of guys while a bloke cop was trying to force a reaction by being massive jerk booting guys literally sitting their quietly watching the cricket and when they questioned why it was all 'Because I said so'.
Just to clarify, "cops" being police, or security guards? Enormous difference in the vetting process for who these people are and how they behave.
@Rembrandt said in Cricket: NZ vs Aus:
@Snowy Yeah it was pretty gross what was going on. To be fair I was no fan of the crazyness of the early 2000's in NZ when going to a match would guarantee you'd be drenched in beer from piston wristed gibbons who Mexican wave with full cups. This though was a massive over-reaction. Had a women cop taking names of a whole row of guys while a bloke cop was trying to force a reaction by being massive jerk booting guys literally sitting their quietly watching the cricket and when they questioned why it was all 'Because I said so'. I went to the bathroom after the first load of guys were evicted and there was a 8 person security/police huddle near the entrance discussing who they wanted to turf next. I know I'll not go back there for the cricket, just a massive display of authoritarian wankery left with a bitter taste and not just due to the Black caps performance or that expensive shitty brown water that the MCG calls 'beer'.
Yeah the security guards are all part of a big left wing conspiracy.
Pretty easy not to get kicked out. Drink normally, don't dump a bunch of plastic cups over everyone around you and enjoy the cricket.
Maybe the security where I was was a bit more lenient than where you were, but everyone I saw get kicked out was clearly there for a piss up and not that interested in the cricket (except the guy who got booted for player abuse, where the Aussies definitely had a lot more protection than the kiwis. Tom Blundell was copping it from the crowd all day two, so glad he got a ton in the end.)
@Snowy said in Cricket: NZ vs Aus:
@Rembrandt said in Cricket: NZ vs Aus:
Had a women cop taking names of a whole row of guys while a bloke cop was trying to force a reaction by being massive jerk booting guys literally sitting their quietly watching the cricket and when they questioned why it was all 'Because I said so'.
Just to clarify, "cops" being police, or security guards? Enormous difference in the vetting process for who these people are and how they behave.
Those two were cops, a 3rd cop who came in and out of it seemed to be liaising with security and seemed to be more in charge. He initially told the guys that if they put all the cups in the bin then they could stay. The guys did as he asked, he then came back and said 'nope security says you all have to go'. Seems like it is security calling the shots. The kids obeyed. I would have hated to see this with some of my mates of yesteryear, would be a couple in the cells for resisting arrest for sure.
@Cyclops said in Cricket: NZ vs Aus:
@Rembrandt said in Cricket: NZ vs Aus:
Maybe the security where I was was a bit more lenient than where you were, but everyone I saw get kicked out was clearly there for a piss up and not that interested in the cricket (except the guy who got booted for player abuse, where the Aussies definitely had a lot more protection than the kiwis. Tom Blundell was copping it from the crowd all day two, so glad he got a ton in the end.)
That's entirely possible, I can only 100% vouch for the row of guys in front of me, unless there was some mischief in the bathrooms that I didn't see. My cousin had a similar story regarding blokes being kicked for a snake, an older gentleman saw them get booted so stood up with 2 cups held them apart and put them together while the crowd cheered him on. He did that about 3 or 4 times before he got the boot too to the crowds applause.
Not sure how they do the seating there or if its been tried before but maybe there should be some sort of party area where security is a bit more lax and people know what they are going into. Definitely understand no one wants their kids around any potential larikinism.
@Rembrandt said in Cricket: NZ vs Aus:
some sort of party area where security is a bit more lax and people know what they are going into
Hong Kong sevens south stand. Works well, go in there at your peril.
I was there on Boxing Day and confirm people were getting booted left right and centre for nothing - skulling beers and cup snakes. It was entirely over the top fun police - by the security guards not the police - I saw a guy skull a beer right in front of a cop and the cop just had a quiet word with him and walked away.
Ironically the crowd was bloody well behaved - even in the afternoon after some time in the sun and a few beers - a few mexican waves - nothing unruly at all.
I like that someone is questioning DRS. It brings up some weird decisions all the time and it needs to be called out - giving it some untouchable status is crazy - it deserves criticism.
However on Paine I do find it funny that the 'nice guy' Australia have brought in as captain to help change the culture and change the image of the team is the mouthiest guy in world cricket - his gob is non stop. Straya!
@KiwiMurph said in Cricket: NZ vs Aus:
I like that someone is questioning DRS. It brings up some weird decisions all the time and it needs to be called out - giving it some untouchable status is crazy - it deserves criticism.
To a point. One of the few "crazy decisions" was when they used the wrong delivery recently - I think in NZ v England, but it got picked up.
Did you see the pre match thing where they showed how ball tracking was done? Worth a watch if it is available on utube.
Definitively use the 1/2 ball thing to allow for inaccuracies but that is still better than an umpire who sees it once, live. No slow mo, no snicko, no hot spot, no ball tracker. I'd give that decision to the 3rd umpire, still an umpire but not the on field one.
So, changes for Sydney?
Boult is obviously out. I'd imagine Matt Henry will come in for him.
I saw Nathan Lyon on TV suggesting that the Australians thought Santner would play in Sydney where the pitch might help him more but to hell with that. Somerville or Astle to come in for Santner.
I'm also wondering whether CdG is expendable given that he's averaged 19 with the bat and 41 with the ball - and whether we play five specialist bowlers, give the workload Wagner and Southee have carried. That would let us play three seamers and two spinners (or even four and one). Weakens the batting a bit, but if the top order fails to fire, I don't think Colin is a great bet to succeed either - not against this attack.
@Chris-B said in Cricket: NZ vs Aus:
I saw Nathan Lyon on TV suggesting that the Australians thought Santner would play in Sydney where the pitch might help him more but to hell with that. Somerville or Astle to come in for Santner.
Is the pitch expected to be a traditional SCG spin friendly wicket? Both sides might opt for two spinners.
That might save Santner and puts CDG under threat
@Duluth said in Cricket: NZ vs Aus:
That might save Santner and puts CDG under threat
We don't have Boult so can add a spinner in his place anyway. CDG could stay.
Leaves the pace "attack" being very medium pace (at best) though.
@Snowy said in Cricket: NZ vs Aus:
More fuel to the DRS fire.
Tim Paine has has also been added to my dickheads file after I initially liked him.
Well and truly in the dickhead file
@Duluth I think that even if we play two spinners it should be Astle and Somerville.
Santner's simply been too ineffectual and the Aussies have had a really good look at him.
@Chris-B said in Cricket: NZ vs Aus:
I think that even if we play two spinners it should be Astle and Somerville.
I don’t disagree. I just think the selectors are friendlier to Santner than the fans
@Duluth Yeah - without doubt.
I like Santner, as well - but mainly in the shorter forms. He just doesn't have enough weaponry to be a test spinner - unless maybe on really spin-friendly pitches.
Which, as you suggest, the selectors may think Sydney is....
Really, they erred by not giving Astle the spinners' spot in Melbourne - we'd have learned a lot more - and Santner might have been more in my frame to play in Sydney.
@TeWaio said in Cricket: NZ vs Aus:
Santner is the new Guptill.... world class in ODIs but no good in tests.
That said I'd love to have Guppy batting 6 in our current test side btwn Nicholls and Watling. I feel like we're a batsmen short with our wicket keeper batting 6.
Would love to have seen more chances for Guppy in the middle order. Was never equipped to be a test opener.
@booboo said in Cricket: NZ vs Aus:
@TeWaio said in Cricket: NZ vs Aus:
Santner is the new Guptill.... world class in ODIs but no good in tests.
That said I'd love to have Guppy batting 6 in our current test side btwn Nicholls and Watling. I feel like we're a batsmen short with our wicket keeper batting 6.
Would love to have seen more chances for Guppy in the middle order. Was never equipped to be a test opener.
100%, I think we've said this before on here but he doesn't have an openers game at all - plays with hard hands and likes to go at the wider deliveries. I see a lot of parallels between him and Astle, who was very effective for us at 5/6.
@TeWaio said in Cricket: NZ vs Aus:
our wicket keeper batting 6.
Understand what you are saying but our wicket keeper is also one of our best bats i.e I'm not sure that we have someone to put ahead of him and still get full value from BJ.
@Snowy Three more tests and we'll have Devon Conway - and Will Young should be back playing by then as well! 
@Chris-B Will Young definitely a prospect. I don't know much about Conway?
BJ going down the order would still seem a waste given his tenacity.
@Snowy South African serving his residency. Made a triple century earlier this year, which has him heading the batting averages in the Plunket Shield.
He's being talked up and has the stats to back that - as long as he doesn't suffer Graeme Hick syndrome.
Devon Conway Profile - Cricket Player New Zealand | Stats, Records, Video
Read about Devon Conway cricket player from New Zealand profile, stats, rankings, records, videos, photos at ESPNcricinfo
@Chris-B Right. I do know about him, had forgotten the name and discounted his as he hasn't been eligible. Will pay more attention if he is!
@Chris-B said in Cricket: NZ vs Aus:
@Snowy South African serving his residency. Made a triple century earlier this year, which has him heading the batting averages in the Plunket Shield.
He's being talked up and has the stats to back that - as long as he doesn't suffer Graeme Hick syndrome.
Read about Devon Conway cricket player from New Zealand profile, stats, rankings, records, videos, photos at ESPNcricinfo
On his stats. Got it to keep in mind that South Africa have Franchise cricket as well as Provincial cricket that are both given FC status.
So his stats look better than they really are. Are mostly made in a Saf version of almost, but better, Hawke Cup. (However, this was same of Wagner who barely broke into Franchise cricket in Saf)
Can see his stats by team here:
*Edit. Although that is a bit out of date on his Wellington record. Doesn't include this season. So bz record even better.
He's had a good 2 seasons really, in NZ. In Saf he averaged 20s for his 2 franchise teams.
I haven't actually watched him yet though, apart from televised t20 games. I have no opinion on his actual promise .
I have however watched and do rate plenty of current next tier batsmen in nz. I might take an interest in Conway once he's available. Have plenty of depth and promise in our traditional weakness. Our bowling depth not so much.
@Chris-B said in Cricket: NZ vs Aus:
@Snowy Three more tests and we'll have Devon Conway - and Will Young should be back playing by then as well!
There are also two tests in Bangladesh later this year which I don't think he will eligible for yet.