Cut Fozzie a little bit of slack

The mid field is so frustrating. It's really obvious when you make a error as a player, and you aren't sure what the guy next to you is going to do in the first instance, as you haven't played with the guy before.

And yet we keep doing it, (or swap the numbers).

@nzzp said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:

Guess we'll agree to disagree. There were some positional oddities, but generally the Cartel were excellent at identifying talent ant then getting the best out of it. Dane Coles stood out for me - they grabbed him as a raw, reckless muppet and turned him into a remarkable hooker

I think that is where we have to be prepared to cut Foster some slack though. If he has a strong conviction that Cane/Savea at 7/8 or Jordie on the right wing is a long term answer then he should be given at least the remainder of this year to persevere with that and see if it pays dividends.

That said when you drop Ioane after one test you clearly don't have much conviction - at least in the midfield.

I almost wish we would get back to the 1980s/90s selection style where certain coaches just had fundamental objections/preferences to players based on their style of play and how that would fit into the ABs. Imagine having two successive coaches agnostic about whether Mehrtens or Spencer were better placed in the 10 jersey for example - yet here we are...

@rotated said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:

I think that is where we have to be prepared to cut Foster some slack though.

Tough to do, when he has been carrying the shit Chiefs baggage for well over a decade and not really seeming to grow out of it.

@Snowy said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:

@rotated said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:

I think that is where we have to be prepared to cut Foster some slack though.

Tough to do, when he has been carrying the shit Chiefs baggage for well over a decade and not really seeming to grow out of it.

You can’t be too hard on Fozzie for the Chiefs tenure, let’s not forget the Crusaders were ruining Super Rugby during that time by playing in 5 championship games and winning 3 titles.

The Bulls also did their part in ruining Super Rugby as well.

@ACT-Crusader said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:

@Snowy said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:

@rotated said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:

I think that is where we have to be prepared to cut Foster some slack though.

Tough to do, when he has been carrying the shit Chiefs baggage for well over a decade and not really seeming to grow out of it.

You can’t be too hard on Fozzie for the Chiefs tenure, let’s not forget the Crusaders were ruining Super Rugby during that time by playing in 5 championship games and winning 3 titles.

The Bulls also did their part in ruining Super Rugby as well.

How good one side is doesn't really make any difference. The selections can't be blamed on the coach? Nor the poor performances?

What was it, results wise, a 4th and absolutely smacked by the Bulls in a final? Over about 10 years? I am not whelmed.

In fairness to Fozzie he was the first ever Chiefs coach to make the semis (2004) and in 2009 they finished 2nd on the ladder by 1 competition point (and yes got smashed in the final in Pretoria).

Does that make him a good coach?

One semi and one final over a decade. I am dubious, he had some talent available to him IIRC and the Chiefs fans weren't happy. Just as us Blues guys haven't been for a long time.

@Snowy It wasn't quite over a decade. 2004 to 2011.

No I don't think that makes him a good AB head coach.

You'd also like to think fozzie has learned a bit since he left the Chiefs, hopefully Sunday will provide some evidence of this ability to learn

Wow.

Ted haha.

Asked to choose between Rennie and Foster, Graham Henry said he would pick the Wallabies coach as his man.

"I talked in the media about this before and (was) asked who should coach the All Blacks and I was very vocal about Rennie," Henry said.

"But Dave Rennie went to Glasgow and went and coached there after winning two Super titles with the Chiefs.

"I think he's got it all and no disrespect to Fozzie, no disrespect, and New Zealand Rugby - this is some time ago, not recently - were meant to keep in contact with players and coaches who had a big influence with professional rugby in this country and went overseas and they didn't do that. If they had done that with Dave Rennie he would have applied for the All Black job.

"I think we stuffed up quite frankly because he is a quality person and a quality coach and you've seen it straight away with the Wallabies. They will play for him, and that's no disrespect to Fozzie, that's just circumstantial, so I've answered the question."

"Dave Rennie is a fabulous coach, no doubt. New Zealand Rugby c**ked that up. They should have been connecting with Dave and (Japan coach) Jamie Joseph and other people around the world to keep them involved in New Zealand Rugby. (But they) didn't contact Dave Rennie for three years, and Dave Rennie is fabulous, so he's going to do a great job with Australia. Whether they've got the personnel to be up there for the World Cup, I think they probably will with Dave Rennie.

Christy Doran  /  Oct 15, 2020

'New Zealand Rugby c**ked that up': Sir Graham Henry says Dave Rennie should be All Blacks coach | Latest Rugby News | RUGBY.com.au

'New Zealand Rugby c**ked that up': Sir Graham Henry says Dave Rennie should be All Blacks coach

@KiwiMurph Wow - that is a serious crack at NZ Rugby - and probably deserved.

There has been plenty of sleeping on the job in terms of their competition structures over the past several years (we've just been discussing one of them) and things seem to have got significantly worse since Tew left.

Seems SGH thinks they've been sleeping on the job with their succession planning - and their negotiating on a new Super rugby structure appears to have been a fucking shambles.

@Chris-B said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:

@KiwiMurph Wow - that is a serious crack at NZ Rugby - and probably deserved.

There has been plenty of sleeping on the job in terms of their competition structures over the past several years (we've just been discussing one of them) and things seem to have got significantly worse since Tew left.

something like 90 people working there - it's gone through the roof over the last few years

@nzzp said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:

@Chris-B said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:

@KiwiMurph Wow - that is a serious crack at NZ Rugby - and probably deserved.

There has been plenty of sleeping on the job in terms of their competition structures over the past several years (we've just been discussing one of them) and things seem to have got significantly worse since Tew left.

something like 90 people working there - it's gone through the roof over the last few years

AIG money. Can't buy competence obviously.

Turns out these Henry comments come from the recent Wairarapa Bush Rugby Sports Awards where he looks a lot of wines deep haha.

@KiwiMurph said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:

Turns out these Henry comments come from the recent Wairarapa Bush Rugby Sports Awards where he looks a lot of wines deep haha.

he's earned it.

Won with Auckland, won with Wales, came back and won with Auckland again, took on the ABs, turned them round and rebuilt from the Mitchell horror show, built a great team, lost a RWC, dominated for 4 years, squeaked home in 2011 and retired to Waiheke a happy man.

Really, all that was left was giong full Martin Crowe and picking up Miss Universe ... but for a coach he's done it all

How did Fozzie get his assistant gig in the first place? Was that Shags doing or was it by application also?

@KiwiMurph said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:

Turns out these Henry comments come from the recent Wairarapa Bush Rugby Sports Awards where he looks a lot of wines deep haha.

He looked sloshed answering those questions. Go to 2:02:50 for Henry’s comments.

@ACT-Crusader My cuzzie sis was there representing my mighty home club, lotsa Martinborough wine was consumed, so doesn't surprise me!

@Chris-B said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:

Sam Whitelock is a huge loss. I thought he was one of our best last Sunday and he's being replaced by a guy who frankly I know almost nothing about. He might as well be Bryn Evans!

I've heard Tasman has already signed him for next year.

@ACT-Crusader the contrast with Foster coudln't be starker

Hansen backed in Foster a while ago. I’d be genuinely interested in what the motivation was. Just as Henry backed in Hansen, there were doubts there too.

@Nepia who, Whitelock or Evans (or both)

Rennie is his own man and doesn't really play the political game that is sometimes needed in sports. It was Smith that got him to the Chiefs when NZR were probably looking elsewhere.

@Nepia said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:

@Chris-B said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:

Sam Whitelock is a huge loss. I thought he was one of our best last Sunday and he's being replaced by a guy who frankly I know almost nothing about. He might as well be Bryn Evans!

I've heard Tasman has already signed him for next year.

Good!

Much as I hate to contemplate it - we need to start thinking about grooming a possible replacement for Alex Ainley - just in case he should retire prematurely!

@ACT-Crusader said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:

Hansen backed in Foster a while ago. I’d be genuinely interested in what the motivation was. Just as Henry backed in Hansen, there were doubts there too.

Presumably you back your man regardless.

@Chris-B said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:

I'm slightly concerned by Plumtree's assertion that if the ref doesn't control the Aussie's cheap-shotting, we'll have to have a crack ourselves. That's the sort of thing that leads to cards in test matches - and with both teams looking to assert themselves, card(s) won't surprise me.

This and Coles starting is a concern!

@ACT-Crusader said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:

@KiwiMurph said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:

Turns out these Henry comments come from the recent Wairarapa Bush Rugby Sports Awards where he looks a lot of wines deep haha.

He looked sloshed answering those questions. Go to 2:02:50 for Henry’s comments.

Interesting -- Ted says to thwart rush defence, attack the transition zones (around scrums or end of lineout). Makes sense.

@pakman said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:

@ACT-Crusader said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:

@KiwiMurph said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:

Turns out these Henry comments come from the recent Wairarapa Bush Rugby Sports Awards where he looks a lot of wines deep haha.

He looked sloshed answering those questions. Go to 2:02:50 for Henry’s comments.

Interesting -- Ted says to thwart rush defence, attack the transition zones (around scrums or end of lineout). Makes sense.

I seem to recall Henry's teams kicking the ball away in response to a rush defence. Countering it has been a weakness of ours for more than a decade, just ask the French.

@ACT-Crusader And Rennie walked in and changed that in a heartbeat.

@chimoaus said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:

How did Fozzie get his assistant gig in the first place? Was that Shags doing or was it by application also?

I think there was a theory his specialty is attack, and that is what he was used for initially

@kiwiinmelb said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:

I think there was a theory his specialty is attack

Hmmm, 16 points. Don't we normally need 26 to win or something?

Not taking away from Wallabies defence of course.

@kiwiinmelb said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:

@chimoaus said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:

How did Fozzie get his assistant gig in the first place? Was that Shags doing or was it by application also?

I think there was a theory his specialty is attack, and that is what he was used for initially

If your speciality is attack, then you have to back the shit out of yourself as a coach if you're going to select the least attacking wings available. I'm not quite as negative as others on those selections, but you cant argue they were anything other than defensive as fuck.

@Snowy said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:

@kiwiinmelb said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:

I think there was a theory his specialty is attack

Hmmm, 16 points. Don't we normally need 26 to win or something?

Not taking away from Wallabies defence of course.

I have to add , it wasn’t my theory ,

But I remember the talk when he was first brought into the ab setup

@chimoaus Hansen needed someone who would make him look trim by comparison?

@booboo said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:

I was initially prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt, but I'm teetering on the edge.

To my mind he's fucked up twice:

1. Selection: Picking four players out of position, and bland placeholding type players
2. Performance: if the above team had performed it may have excused the selection. But it didn't.

I was wanting to do a longer rant but don't have time, but to me it seems he wants to be a bit cutesy and reinvent rugby. By that I mean he seems to have picked two 1st 5s, playing them in numbers 10 and 15, and two fullbacks at 11 and 14 to cover the 2nd 1st 5/8.

Over complicated?

Rugby has developed the positions it has over 150 odd years as that seems to be the best way to play it.

His midfield pissed me off no end.

And Ardie as our heavy hitter.

I am very neutral on Fozzie at the moment.

So I've g9ne from neutral to slightly in favour and potentially a little optimistic.

I'm still not a fan of shoehorning the best players into the XV. Which is what seems to be happening with the selections currently

Would prefer the best specialists get picked for their positions.

But I fairness to Foster today I reckon ie attack was faster than theirs.

And I have to give them credit for selection in picking Vaa'i. They obviously saw something in the bloke which was apparent this arvo. Looked the goods to my eye.

Defence, knocking their organised attack backwards needs to improve

But I'm back to 70/30 in favour of Fozzie..

Very good performance from the ABs, even if helped a bit by poor Australian decision making in the 2nd half.

Good to see the coaches getting the most out of some of the young guns (Clarke and Vaa'i) and experienced players (Coles, Cane, Nugget, ALB, BB).

Not sure I'd call this performance yet "a marker" as Foz did. The Bledisloe isn't yet secure for 2020.Still looking to see Sotutu, Akira Ioane and Will Jordan given more game time as I think they could all be excellent. But much better than Wellington.? to Foster & co.

Foster for PM

@NTA said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:

Foster for PM

Better chance than Collins...

@ACT-Crusader said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:

@NTA said in The 'How is Fozzie going?' thread:

Foster for PM

Better chance than Collins...

I thought he meant for Australia. Could well have a chance when they win the bled back.