All Blacks v Boks at Twickenham
The Springboks did what they always do and we didn’t adjust. This perplexing failure of the ABs to deal with the predictable is the biggest worry.
They didn’t adjust quickly enough to the referee, who like most northern hemisphere whistlers seemed to intent to show his superiors his affinity with every minor clause in the rule book.
They knew what the Boks would bring, but continued to put themselves under unnecessary further pressure with poor exits, dropped balls and constant infringements.
Their heads clearly weren’t in the right place and the Boks, having had their arses smacked in Auckland a couple of months ago, were up for this one.
I don’t think the ABs turned into a bad team overnight but I do believe this humiliation suggests the mental fragility that bedevilled them for much of the past four-year World Cup cycle is still there.
Perhaps they’re reading too many of their own positive press notices or perhaps many of the veteran members of the team like Beauden Barrett feel they’re on a victory lap. Either way, there’s a residual flakiness to the team. If their tails aren’t up, they are instantly flustered and then compound the damage with stupid errors and acts of outright stupidity like that of the other Barretts.
What is the source of it? While Schmidt and Ryan have clearly brought the team forward on a technical basis, the top two inches are missing and that comes down to Foster. He seems a genuinely nice bloke and is clearly well-regarded by many of the players. But the mental softness I think comes from him, as shown in his own undying loyalty to Cane as captain and Beauden Barrett.
Can they turn it around in the WC proper? I very much doubt it. World Cups are won by teams with strong set piece, impregnable defences, astute kicking, mental and physical discipline and an ability to adapt to the ref.
On all those measures, I wouldn’t be putting money on the ABs.
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
I didn't get to watch the game.
You really missed out on an object lesson on piss-poor forward play
But we didn't just get shit all of a sudden, we will hopefully be okay come RWC time
Bit of a one-off off day hopefully.
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
I didn't get to watch the game. But we didn't just get shit all of a sudden, we will hopefully be okay come RWC time
I dunno but we certainly looked shit all of a sudden ,
It was a pre 2023 performance
Those who raving about Bo’unga finally working before the game, how do you feel now? These guys cannot get us in a position to turn things around, so unless our forwards get on top of teams early, we are going nowhere.
People have seriously discussed changing the AB selection policy to keep Mo’unga in the team. What a fucking joke. He’s not even Aaron Cruden good, let alone Carter good.
@African-Monkey we just got humped by a record score in the lead up. Are you serious? This is Foster ball all over. Top team haven't played for a few weeks and rolls out the B/C side in Dunedin, another two weeks off and the top team gets humped. And then we have France after another two weeks off. France would put 70 on us with a two man advantage.
@kev said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
Our weaknesses exposed:
- kicking game flawed, high risk
- high tempo game relies on winning contact
- Jordie Barrett still makes poor decisions
- reserve locks
Scott Barrett unlucky with both yellow cards. Got tackled into halfback. Clean out on ground was penalty.
Jordie may make poor decisions but he is a big lump and least he is going forward or falling forward in contact. Similar impact on defence (for the most part).
Havili and ALB will be catnip for the NH back rows. ALB wasn't the answer 4 years ago. He has no wheels, no offload game, no kicking game and no physicality.
We have seen this movie before.
Its Jordie and Rieko or bust at this stage and I say that as someone who thinks Rieko isn't a centres arsehole.
@gt12 said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
Those who raving about Bo’unga finally working before the game, how do you feel now? These guys cannot get us in a position to turn things around, so unless our forwards get on top of teams early, we are going nowhere.
People have seriously discussed changing the AB selection policy to keep Mo’unga in the team. What a fucking joke. He’s not even Aaron Cruden good, let alone Carter good.
You could have put any first five you like behind that pack and they'd have looked shit. Very hard in the modern game for a first five to play well behind a beaten pack because of the rush defence.
@frugby said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
de Groot isn't perfect around the field, but listen to what Jason Ryan has to say.
After tonite's performance, I'll give that a miss for a week or two.....
@sparky said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
Does this alter selection for Paris in two weeks time?
Id be getting the tippex out and writing F I N A U on a squad sheet for a start.
@sparky If anything I'd say it solidifies it? Thought the subs were poor outside of Roigard.
@Steve said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
Its Jordie and Rieko or bust at this stage and I say that as someone who thinks Rieko isn't a centres arsehole.
Yep. The dice has been rolled and at least the pair aren't injured. I'm sure Jordie will be as pissed off with his performance as we are and go away and work on things.
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
Hammering
Boks barely got out of 3rd gear
We didn't get out of first, so not completely flattering.
@His-Bobness France will be pissed they don't have any real opposition going into the QF.
@Tim said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
Worst performance of Foster's tenure? Worst of Ryan's.
Not sure of a, but definitely b
@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
Sam Cane’s underwhelming captaincy is a massive concern. I don’t think he’s strong enough of a leader to take us to the World Cup.
Have to agree with that. Form better this year but not sure he is the best 7 we have. Never sure about his captaincy. While I think of it, what the fuck are we going to do next year without Brody R and Sam Whitlock? The locks are going to be a big drop off. Barrett has been good but has just let us down completely. Was sort of led into a false sense of hope after the RC but now realize why Foster should never have been given the job. Fuck this just sucks.
@His-Bobness said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
The Springboks did what they always do and we didn’t adjust. This perplexing failure of the ABs to deal with the predictable is the biggest worry.
They didn’t adjust quickly enough to the referee, who like most northern hemisphere whistlers seemed to intent to show his superiors his affinity with every minor clause in the rule book.
They knew what the Boks would bring, but continued to put themselves under unnecessary further pressure with poor exits, dropped balls and constant infringements.
Their heads clearly weren’t in the right place and the Boks, having had their arses smacked in Auckland a couple of months ago, were up for this one.
I don’t think the ABs turned into a bad team overnight but I do believe this humiliation suggests the mental fragility that bedevilled them for much of the past four-year World Cup cycle is still there.
Perhaps they’re reading too many of their own positive press notices or perhaps many of the veteran members of the team like Beauden Barrett feel they’re on a victory lap. Either way, there’s a residual flakiness to the team. If their tails aren’t up, they are instantly flustered and then compound the damage with stupid errors and acts of outright stupidity like that of the other Barretts.
What is the source of it? While Schmidt and Ryan have clearly brought the team forward on a technical basis, the top two inches are missing and that comes down to Foster. He seems a genuinely nice bloke and is clearly well-regarded by many of the players. But the mental softness I think comes from him, as shown in his own undying loyalty to Cane as captain and Beauden Barrett.
Can they turn it around in the WC proper? I very much doubt it. World Cups are won by teams with strong set piece, impregnable defences, astute kicking, mental and physical discipline and an ability to adapt to the ref.
On all those measures, I wouldn’t be putting money on the ABs.
Ive felt for a long time that Beaudy is playing touch footie. He isn't taking contact, he isn't aggressively taking it to the line.
Look at DC's final performance in 2015. The tackling was superb. Body on the line stuff. Beaudy is throwing the odd skip pass, the odd chip kick. All icing. But there is no cake.
Boot the fucking leather off it down to their end. Come to claim a high ball and clean everyone out who gets in your way.
Look at Dagg or Ben Smith. They were a presence back there.
Beaudy is ruining his legacy.
Give me Will Jordan at 15, Telea and Narawa or Leicester on the wings. It couldn't be any worse.
Jordan should have had way more time at 15 than he has had so far. He should be getting his hands on the ball as much as possible. He scored with his first touch today.
Same goes for Roigard and Jacobsen in their respective shirts. Under utilised.
@His-Bobness I don’t think the ABs are a poor team now. I just think the strategy they have is wrong. It all starts with a high risk kicking game. A blindside bomb in their 22, cross kicks in our 22… the mindset is wrong for tight test matches.
@booboo said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
Hammering
Boks barely got out of 3rd gear
We didn't get out of first, so not completely flattering.
Both SA’s choice
@chimoaus said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
One bonus is there is absolutely no expectation from me we will win this WC, probably first time I have ever gone into a WC feeling that. I can enjoy the cup without pressure and if we do turn it around I will be stoked.
Have to totally agree. Well said that man.
Worried about the situation at 10.
I cannot visualise Mo'unga or Barrett schooling the French or Irish and after today the Boks.
I just can't see it.
Flat track fly halves.
I haven't seen a dragging a game by the scruff of the neck performance from ether of them in recent memory.
Don’t ya love a Fern thread after an AB loss.
Time to unload on our preconditioned selection issues or talk about players “we missed” or about the mentality of certain players.
We got beaten. We gave away a shed load of penalties. We were camped in our 22 as a result. We made errors when we had some momentum. We didn’t get the result we wanted just before half time with that try. We had cards. Boks capitalised on us having to defend for long periods.
@Joans-Town-Jones It's a meaningless fixture at the end of the day. Yeah, we shouldn't be getting smashed, but better to happen now then when it counts.
We already smashed the Boks this year with something on the line yet that doesn't seem to matter now?
Some real drama queens on here at times.
@Steve said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
Worried about the situation at 10.
I cannot visualise Mo'unga or Barrett schooling the French or Irish and after today the Boks.
I just can't see it.
Flat track fly halves.
I haven't seen a dragging a game by the scruff of the neck performance from ether of them in recent memory.
People definitely weren't saying this after we schooled the Boks at Mt Smart and Richie Mo scored 20+ points...
@frugby lol our whole fwd pack got pumped! i thought Williams held is own whilst Newel was getting owned, and I still think Degroot is a liability on cover defence hes too slow to get across, missed some crucial tackles
@Steve said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
Worried about the situation at 10.
I cannot visualise Mo'unga or Barrett schooling the French or Irish and after today the Boks.
I just can't see it.
Flat track fly halves.
I haven't seen a dragging a game by the scruff of the neck performance from ether of them in recent memory.
I want to see them kicking long and starting the game in their territory - especially when you are struggling to win contact. Mounga can play that game. Not sure about Beaudy?
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
@ACT-Crusader Yup, happens every time
But you know if I was picking the team it would’ve been Moody, Taylor, Newell, Whitelock….
?
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
We were camped in our 22 as a result.
Also because the best territory kicker in the squad is Roigard - our starting backline can't flip field position with distance exits
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Springboks - Twickenham:
Don’t ya love a Fern thread after an AB loss.
Time to unload on our preconditioned selection issues or talk about players “we missed” or about the mentality of certain players.
We got beaten. We gave away a shed load of penalties. We were camped in our 22 as a result. We made errors when we had some momentum. We didn’t get the result we wanted just before half time with that try. We had cards. Boks capitalised on us having to defend for long periods.
Very well said