The Great Teacher
Who can hate the Irish? This is the country that gave us Yeats and Joyce and Wilde and Beckett, after all. A good chunk of us in this part of the world have roots in Ireland. And does anyone recall that the Irish, of all peoples, probably hate the English more than anyone?
But aside from their outsized contribution to literature, drama, music and oratory, the Irish have recently become rather good at rugby. To be sure, they have picked the brains and talent of other countries to do that, but in the process they have developed their own style, cohesion and power to the point that they have struck fear into the hearts of the traditional rugby superpowers. As that Irishman Wilde said: “Be yourself; everyone else is taken”.
Ireland’s exit in the quarter final of this World Cup is no disgrace. They just came up against an All Black side that was wounded and may have wanted it more. As well, to quote Andy Farrell in his post-match presser, these knockout games can swing on small moments - Jordie Barrett’s try-saving tackle, Sam Whitelock’s steal at the end, Sexton’s missed shots at goal. A tiny adjustment in the curtains of fate could have changed the denouement entirely.
That the ABs, to win that match, had to dig deeper than they have done in probably any other match since the 2011 final against France spoke volumes not only for their new-found resilience and self-belief but also for Ireland’s never-say-die commitment and ability to keep picking themselves up from setbacks. This Ireland team were never beaten, until the final whistle. Every drop of blood that could be shed on both sides was done so.
As for Sexton, sure he can be ornery, mouthy and hard to like at times. But is he more so than Fitzy or Coles or Marshall? Put it this way, if this 38-year-old warrior been playing in black would any of his most bitter critics here have been so quick to condemn him? And could anyone in their heart of hearts really claim that Ireland’s recent successes have not made watching rugby union a richer and more thrilling experience?
As for the All Blacks and their lame duck coach, it has been a tough few years, unquestionably, with a host of undesirable ‘firsts’ on the team resume. One could almost smell the regret seeping from the hard-nosed money men at Silver Lake. But the quarter final felt like a form of redemption and a reminder that sport, like life generally, can swing on the smallest of moments.
To quote another great Irishman in James Joyce:
“To learn, one must be humble. But life is the great teacher.”
@Windows97 said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
Well I didn't see that coming, mainly I didn't expect us to play so well. Ireland certainly didn't choke and it was two quality teams facing off against each other.
Our forward pack was very good, in general won the collision and set-piece was solid if not edging the Irish. Our short kicking game improved immeasurably in that it evolved from a disorganized, head scratching chaos to being able to see an organized and discernable plan to kick the ball short and have a competitive chase.
Great to see Kane and Savea actually playing like loose forwards and getting turn overs.
I thought we did a great job of converting our opportunities into points - the Irish turned down several kicks at goal which cost them (for reference ask AB fans the wisdom of turning down shots at goal in must win games as you chase tires, tries tires!!)
Our Achilles heels as in my mind we have two of them.
- Our exits are still terrible and even when executed don't relieve pressure
2) Our discipline in the red zone is lackingIn short though a very good game of rugby, Ireland only held out by a couple of big defensive plays at the end. The D in the closing minutes though was epic and disciplined - I guess we held our discipline when it mattered most
Were you hiding under the couch for the last 7 minutes and 312 phases???
Edit -just read your final line - but how do you reconcile those 2 statements??
Were you hiding under the couch for the last 7 minutes and 312 phases???
Edit -just read your final line - but how do you reconcile those 2 statements??
2 yellow cards both in the red zone - it needs to be 0. Were one of the most carded sides in world rugby these days and that's a discipline issue.
But tremendous D at the end of the game, superb.
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@ShitMcCaw I enjoy drunken banter so please stay. We definitely have our share of gobby dickheads (Dane Coles chief among them). But including McCaw there is stoopid. I've been to an event where he was keynote speaker and he practically had to be beaten with a stick to speak. Gobby that boy certainly ain't.
Yeah I wondered where that came from , I thought maybe I missed something.
@Windows97 said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
Were you hiding under the couch for the last 7 minutes and 312 phases???
Edit -just read your final line - but how do you reconcile those 2 statements??
2 yellow cards both in the red zone - it needs to be 0. Were one of the most carded sides in world rugby these days and that's a discipline issue.
But tremendous D at the end of the game, superb.
Smith's yellow was hardly a yellow card in the red zone that screamed lacking discipline. It was an inadvertent reflex reaction 30m from the line. I also sort of think Taylor slips (not debating the card) so didn't pull that maul down entirely intentionally. I thought out discipline v Ireland was pretty bloody good.
@frugby said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@Windows97 said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
Were you hiding under the couch for the last 7 minutes and 312 phases???
Edit -just read your final line - but how do you reconcile those 2 statements??
2 yellow cards both in the red zone - it needs to be 0. Were one of the most carded sides in world rugby these days and that's a discipline issue.
But tremendous D at the end of the game, superb.
Smith's yellow was hardly a yellow card in the red zone that screamed lacking discipline. It was an inadvertent reflex reaction 30m from the line. I also sort of think Taylor slips (not debating the card) so didn't pull that maul down entirely intentionally. I thought out discipline v Ireland was pretty bloody good.
Any time you play 20 minutes with 14 men is far from ideal, if we had lost the game I am sure we would have reflected on the poor discipline that led to those yellow cards. But yes, they well and truly redeemed themselves at the end.
@frugby Yeah I had some sympathy for Smith as it "seemed" like a reflex reaction (though we will never know unless your A Smith yourself).
However those are the rules of the game and they were applied accordingly.
Our players know these rules and need to - dare I say it - discipline themselves to think instead of just reacting.
And it's not so much just that one example but a continuing trend of us giving away cards - that's my concern.
Was very pleased that Smith put it behind him and backed himself to get the intercept, shows great mental strength.
bit late to the party but neqrly 3k posts to catch up on!
Wow…epic match deserving of a final
I’ve seen post both ways about the reffing…which probably means he did a good job all in all
Something that I haven’t seen mentioned much…it took a complete change in how we’ve been trying to play for the last five years (we would have played whole games without 30 phases and we did it in a row in the first quarter)….and players like BB and Cane (who have had long runs of injury and/or poor form) to have blinders to beat this Irish team
Huge credit to Ireland…it took a perfect storm to beat them
@NTA said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
I thought Barnes got the first scrum wrong tho - ABs THP folded in for me
Alex Corbisiero has a look at the scrums.
@NTA said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@NTA said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
I thought Barnes got the first scrum wrong tho - ABs THP folded in for me
Alex Corbisiero has a look at the scrums.
im sorry...thats a really shit take....he acknowledges Porter has an elbow down, which is like rule one fore a square set...but its ok because it just "looks bad"...no...its bad....and then because his bind is bad and pulling down...he slips his bind and folds in
@Kiwiwomble said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@NTA said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@NTA said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
I thought Barnes got the first scrum wrong tho - ABs THP folded in for me
Alex Corbisiero has a look at the scrums.
im sorry...thats a really shit take....he acknowledges Porter has an elbow down, which is like rule one fore a square set...but its ok because it just "looks bad"...no...its bad....and then because his bind is bad and pulling down...he slips his bind and folds in
Elbow down is only a problem if it collapses or the loosehead hinges. If it stays up, and he's bound on the back or side, it isn't illegal in any way.
@Kiwiwomble said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
went a looked through the tweet comments...and everything kind of starts "if we ignore this claringly poor for form porter on the bind....the AB's are evil"
Random twitter comments are the best source of truth 
@NTA said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@Kiwiwomble said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@NTA said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@NTA said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
I thought Barnes got the first scrum wrong tho - ABs THP folded in for me
Alex Corbisiero has a look at the scrums.
im sorry...thats a really shit take....he acknowledges Porter has an elbow down, which is like rule one fore a square set...but its ok because it just "looks bad"...no...its bad....and then because his bind is bad and pulling down...he slips his bind and folds in
Elbow down is only a problem if it collapses or the loosehead hinges. If it stays up, and he's bound on the back or side, it isn't illegaly in any way.
it might not be illegal in its own right but neither is running around with you arm out...when you take someones head off...or in this slip your bind and drive in...then its illegal
its scumming 101 to keep your elbow up to keep your shoulders square....elbow down = shoulder down = collapse
@Windows97 said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
Were you hiding under the couch for the last 7 minutes and 312 phases???
Edit -just read your final line - but how do you reconcile those 2 statements??
2 yellow cards both in the red zone - it needs to be 0. Were one of the most carded sides in world rugby these days and that's a discipline issue.
But tremendous D at the end of the game, superb.
I hear you, I'm sick of us getting carded too. Both correct calls though.
Taylor in particular looked like he just slipped to me. Smith was trying to block that passing lane I reckon, so wasn't just unlucky, it was playing with fire a bit.
But that last passage was just insane. The discipline and structure, both only possible with a certain level of fitness, determination and leadership, was really heartening,
@Windows97 said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@frugby Yeah I had some sympathy for Smith as it "seemed" like a reflex reaction (though we will never know unless your A Smith yourself).
However those are the rules of the game and they were applied accordingly.
Our players know these rules and need to - dare I say it - discipline themselves to think instead of just reacting.
And it's not so much just that one example but a continuing trend of us giving away cards - that's my concern.
Was very pleased that Smith put it behind him and backed himself to get the intercept, shows great mental strength.
I've no problem with the penalty, but to have that upgraded to YC was ludicrous.
@Kiwiwomble said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
went a looked through the tweet comments...and everything kind of starts "if we ignore this claringly poor for form porter on the bind....the AB's are evil"
Enjoy those salty tears 
@antipodean said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
I've no problem with the penalty, but to have that upgraded to YC was ludicrous.
As you'd know tho, the guide wants to look at linebreak opportunity and then penalty try if there is no cover defence.
@Kiwiwomble said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
it might not be illegal in its own right but neither is running around with you arm out...when you take someones head off...or in this slip your bind and drive in...then its illegal
Exactly my point: nothing is against the Law until it is. Don't get caught
@NTA said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@antipodean said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
I've no problem with the penalty, but to have that upgraded to YC was ludicrous.
As you'd know tho, the guide wants to look at linebreak opportunity and then penalty try if there is no cover defence.
That's what concerns me. They acknowledged there was the fullback and JGP had two ABs within 5m while he was near flat footed. All this about 30m out from the line.
@Chris-B said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
Coming out of the tunnel, Sam looked like the embodiment of the Laser Kiwi flag
Someone needs to photoshop his face over the Kiwi now. Who's got the skills on here to do that?
@His-Bobness Nice write up, but I've hated the Irish (in a rugby sense) since coulda-doid and their fanbase started turning nasty (I also remember them supporting the Aussies over us in 91 even though the Aussies knocked them out) - add to that their players in front of the ball I highlighted earlier in the thread and of the top 4 teams they are the team I least wanted to win the RWC.
Plus, I had a run in with that prick Irish journo Gallagher on twitter who was being a twat over NZ PIs on twitter.
Plus plus, my Irish ancestry is of the Jewish persuasion, and although they took my Eastern European ancestor in after the odd pogrom or two in the east they still didn't make it a welcoming place for even my Ireland born Jewish ancestor. Which I guess had the benefit of getting to NZ eventually to help colonise my other ancestors.
In saying all that I'll still support them over England.
@antipodean said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@Windows97 said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@frugby Yeah I had some sympathy for Smith as it "seemed" like a reflex reaction (though we will never know unless your A Smith yourself).
However those are the rules of the game and they were applied accordingly.
Our players know these rules and need to - dare I say it - discipline themselves to think instead of just reacting.
And it's not so much just that one example but a continuing trend of us giving away cards - that's my concern.
Was very pleased that Smith put it behind him and backed himself to get the intercept, shows great mental strength.
I've no problem with the penalty, but to have that upgraded to YC was ludicrous.
Yeah, penalty seemed fine but a card for that seems bloody stupid. FFS rugby we don't have to card everything.
@antipodean said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@NTA said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@antipodean said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
I've no problem with the penalty, but to have that upgraded to YC was ludicrous.
As you'd know tho, the guide wants to look at linebreak opportunity and then penalty try if there is no cover defence.
That's what concerns me. They acknowledged there was the fullback and JGP had two ABs within 5m while he was near flat footed. All this about 30m out from the line.
Laws: interpret them as you will. Even if the linebreak is inside your in-goal.
@His-Bobness Great stuff as usual, Bob.
And, to quote - possibly Vince Lombardi - more succinctly:
"When you get in the end-zone - act like you've been there before".
A week of being gracious winners wouldn't have hurt us!
@Chris-B said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
A week of being gracious winners wouldn't have hurt us!
emotional outbursts after big wins are entirely reasonable. Otherwise what is the point of watching.
@Stargazer said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
the fuck were the other 4 million people doing??
Disgraceful
@mariner4life said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@Stargazer said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
the fuck were the other 4 million people doing??
Disgraceful
i assumed every one of those had 5 people watching.....
@mariner4life said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@Stargazer said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
the fuck were the other 4 million people doing??
Disgraceful
Watching replays of the Warriors I assume.
@mariner4life said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@Chris-B said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
A week of being gracious winners wouldn't have hurt us!
emotional outbursts after big wins are entirely reasonable. Otherwise what is the point of watching.
Shout it at your neighbours.
I'm sticking with Vince when it comes to posting.
@Chris-B said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@mariner4life said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
@Chris-B said in RWC QF: All Blacks v Ireland:
A week of being gracious winners wouldn't have hurt us!
emotional outbursts after big wins are entirely reasonable. Otherwise what is the point of watching.
Shout it at your neighbours.
I'm sticking with Vince when it comes to posting.
oh, they heard alright
And my post game review was gushing of our vanquished opponents
@mariner4life I don't recall you writing a diatribe on why you hate Jonny.
Don't think those are necessary this week. He's done.
Looked like his kid was tearful and he gave him a wink - that's alright!
@Chris-B i was full bluster and wind-up until Saturday night
Then it was nerves and "holy shit we might do this"
And since then awe in what a game of rugby it was.
This week is going to be such a come down
I was actually quietly confident that Fozzie and Co were the men with a plan...until they named their team.
Then I had 24 hours of thinking they'd fucked it and had no idea - though I only pm-ed my doubts to Steven Harris.
Then I went back to a kind of 40-60 mode, where we can win if we play well, but we probably won't.
After the first 2 minutes I thought we were fucked - but, luckily Porter saved us.
From there I was in awe!
Great game of footy - doubtless played by numerous fuckwits and plenty of good guys!
I said we would win by 2 scores. And i believed we would when we scored the first 13. But they never let us get away.
I did think it was going to take something special, i didn't realise quite how special. Or how many guys were going to have to play out of their skin to make it happen.