Gutted
Well, it's been a few hours and I'd love to say I've moved on. But I haven't. I'm fucking gutted. I thought this shit was supposed to get easier after you have kids and approach 50 - apparently not.
First, congrats to SA. There is something to be said for knowing exactly who you are as a team. You defended incredibly especially well in the first half. Your high kicks were on point, all contested well. You made your shots at goal. I very much dislike the tactics Rassie employs, and the time-wasting especially has to be stopped - but it's not really your responsibility to make either of things happen.
On the reffing, I'm certainly in the camp of less-TMO intervention being needed. Cane's red was fair under current rules, though I simply can't see how there was sufficient mitigation for Kolisi's head-first challenge to not be treated the same way. It was reckless and head-to-head - any anyone claiming no force should look at how much it rocks Ardie here.
https://www.theroar.com.au/rugby-union/video/siya-kolisis-tackle-isnt-upgraded-smith-has-try-chalked-off-in-painful-five-minutes-for-abs-1314995/\
Frizells was just plain odd, and was a 6 point swing.
The AB's played their hearts out, they should be proud of the effort. We certainly weren't error free though, lots of dropped ball and forced passes, and Richie and Jordie will replay those kicks in their heads for years to come. Still, mistakes happen when you get tired, and playing that Springbok team with 14 men for 60mins had to be exhausting. Incredible that we stayed so close.
The kicking discussion has been done to death, but the one tactic I didn't understand today was why we stopped competing at their lineout in the 2nd half? We had them under loads of pressure, then we just stopped - even when in their half. Bizarre.
Anyway, time for a new chapter to be written for these AB's, despite all the gnashing and claims that "this isn't the sport we used to love", the reality is that we will all be here the next time the men in black line up, cheering just as loudly .
I do hope we see some change to the cards system, the 20min red might not be perfect, but surely its a more sensible outcome for anything other than foul play. I'd also like to see time-wasting clamped down on, medics and water runners un-miked, and the TMO only being used to review things at the refs request.
Fuck it, while I'm at it, lets ditch scrum penalties too, they're a lottery and I have no idea why we have decided that having a shit scrum should be a penalisable offense - we don't penalise teams for having a shit lineout. Scrum dominance should mean you have a great platform to attack from, and a weak one should mean shit scrappy ball or a tighthead. A free kick awarded for infringing.
That's enough for me - congrats again SA Ferners - enjoy your day you horrible fluffybunnies!
@Joans-Town-Jones yep, either both Red or both not IMO, 2 solid head contacts where the tackler wasnt in the right position
@Rancid-Schnitzel agree. But if there was anyone who I wanted the ball to go to it was Talea and he was still on the field. A myriad of things could have happened to turn the game and unfortunately they didn’t come off. I doubt very much ALB coming on, in the grand scheme of things, was the losing of the game.
I don't drink much and my parents wouldn't let me kick their cat so I went for a run to get out the anger and disappointment. Running in the opposite direction was a guy wearing a Bok jersey. He was a goofy looking mofo (not your Teutonic, beef fed specimen that wins world cups) and despite my bitterness I gave him a salute.
It's what we do.
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
I don't drink much and my parents wouldn't let me kick their cat so I went for a run to get out the anger and disappointment. Running in the opposite direction was a guy wearing a Bok jersey. He was a goofy looking mofo (not your Teutonic, beef fed specimen that wins world cups) and despite my bitterness I gave him a salute.
It's what we do.
I bet you wanted to hit him high, no arms, no mitigation....
@raznomore said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Rancid-Schnitzel agree. But if there was anyone who I wanted the ball to go to it was Talea and he was still on the field. A myriad of things could have happened to turn the game and unfortunately they didn’t come off. I doubt very much ALB coming on, in the grand scheme of things, was the losing of the game.
Talea was farking incredible.
I never said the ALB had any real bearing on the game. Just didn't think it was the best sub to make. Should have been DMac.
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
I don't drink much and my parents wouldn't let me kick their cat so I went for a run to get out the anger and disappointment. Running in the opposite direction was a guy wearing a Bok jersey. He was a goofy looking mofo (not your Teutonic, beef fed specimen that wins world cups) and despite my bitterness I gave him a salute.
It's what we do.
No time like the present to change that
@Rancid-Schnitzel yeah sorry I realised after I hit send it sounded like I calling you out. No, more my feeling just tacked on at the end.
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@raznomore said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Rancid-Schnitzel agree. But if there was anyone who I wanted the ball to go to it was Talea and he was still on the field. A myriad of things could have happened to turn the game and unfortunately they didn’t come off. I doubt very much ALB coming on, in the grand scheme of things, was the losing of the game.
Telea was farking incredible.
I never said the ALB had any real bearing on the game. Just didn't think it was the best sub to make. Should have been DMac.
He's been one of the finds of the year, cemented his spot for me, although that's up to Razor now. And DMac suggested, in his short cameo, that he has the temperament to run the cutter in 2024. We obviously have a few holes to fill. But the bones of a very good team are there
@canefan yup we have the makings of a world beating team. We need some very aggressive hard hitting locks and 2 straight nutcases on the flanks with Savea.
@raznomore said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@canefan yup we have the makings of a world beating team. We need some very aggressive hard hitting locks and 2 straight nutcases on the flanks with Savea.
Razor whispers "Blackadder"
@canefan said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
I don't drink much and my parents wouldn't let me kick their cat so I went for a run to get out the anger and disappointment. Running in the opposite direction was a guy wearing a Bok jersey. He was a goofy looking mofo (not your Teutonic, beef fed specimen that wins world cups) and despite my bitterness I gave him a salute.
It's what we do.
I bet you wanted to hit him high, no arms, no mitigation....
All I can say is that I was running for alot longer than Sam Cane today...
@canefan said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@raznomore said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@canefan yup we have the makings of a world beating team. We need some very aggressive hard hitting locks and 2 straight nutcases on the flanks with Savea.
Razorhalf the fern whispers "Blackadder"
FIFY
@MN5 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@canefan said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@raznomore said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@canefan yup we have the makings of a world beating team. We need some very aggressive hard hitting locks and 2 straight nutcases on the flanks with Savea.
Razorhalf the fern whispers "Blackadder"FIFY
Are half the ferners originally from Chch? Or do they love Ethan in Poland too?
@canefan said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@MN5 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@canefan said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@raznomore said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@canefan yup we have the makings of a world beating team. We need some very aggressive hard hitting locks and 2 straight nutcases on the flanks with Savea.
Razorhalf the fern whispers "Blackadder"FIFY
Are half the ferners originally from Chch? Or do they love Ethan in Poland too?
That’s certainly one to ponder over the cricket season my friend.
@Yeahtheboys said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
So glad they didn’t selected Roigard would’ve been sickening to see something come on with attacking flare at the end. Shot eh Foz
If Christie couldn't run around those tiring fatties, how could we expect Cam to? ?
@canefan would not be surprised if next year Christie isn’t even in the ABs. Goes from 2nd choice behind nug to 4th choice without Nug
@canefan said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@MN5 said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@canefan said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@raznomore said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@canefan yup we have the makings of a world beating team. We need some very aggressive hard hitting locks and 2 straight nutcases on the flanks with Savea.
Razorhalf the fern whispers "Blackadder"FIFY
Are half the ferners originally from Chch? Or do they love Ethan in Poland too?
Us got polish Chickie's love the rippling muscles
@Yeahtheboys said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@canefan would not be surprised if next year Christie isn’t even in the ABs. Goes from 2nd choice behind nug to 4th choice without Nug
Definitely don't see him in the top 2. Roigard and Fakatava will be there, not sure who else offhand.
@sparky said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
TMO missed this.
That is why I have a problem with where rugby has gotten to.
Barnes didn’t see Cane red card, but TMO did. But if TMO didn’t call that but brought things back for Etzebeth red ABs win.
Reductio ad absurdem, why not dispense with the game and just have a coin toss?
@Joans-Town-Jones said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@GibbonRib said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Commiserations Kiwis. That was a great final, and a great effort from your team. Very unlucky in the end.
r.e. the cards - my view (from watching in real time in a very busy pub, so I might change my mind when I've watched it back) is that they were all correct, except possibly Frizell's which seemed harsh, didn't seem to me that he did much wrong.
Cane's red and Kolisi's yellow - I reckon they were correct decisions, but it does suck.
Two things:
We're all sick of talking about it, but the inconsistency is killing us. When the TMO intervenes, which offences are which colour, etc. There's no excuse for it.
And while I think Cane's was a RC offence and Kolisi's was a YC due to mitigation, it really highlights that while difference between a red and yellow offence can be very marginal, the differnce between the punishments is massive - especially for an early red. I wasn't a fan of the 20 minute rule when it was first suggested, but I've come around to thinking it would help.
Mitigation on Kolisi? What bit is mitigation? The bit where AS is upright and SK clocks him on the nose?
Mitigation: Being a Hurricanes forward SK thought he was taller?
@PN said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Get off it. The SC head tackle had no mitigation, where as Kolisi's was clearly a rugby collision. Initial impact went through SK's shoulders. This echo chamber needs some perspective.
Have another look at Kolisi - link below. Pay attention to Savea's head. He came charging in to a player dropping from a jump, and smokes him in the head.
There's as much mitigation as Cane in a dynamic tackle. For me, both yellow, or both red. Hell, week to week you'd like it reffed the same (I know, wishful thinking)
Rugby World Cup news | Moment Springboks captain Siya Kolisi cops yellow card
South Africa's captain Siya Kolisi was sent off after he made head-on-head contact with fill-in All Blacks captain Ardie Savea.
@pakman said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@sparky said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
TMO missed this.
That is why I have a problem with where rugby has gotten to.
Barnes didn’t see Cane red card, but TMO did. But if TMO didn’t call that but brought things back for Etzebeth red ABs win.
Reductio ad absurdem, why not dispense with the game and just have a coin toss?
No wonder Barnes didn't see that-it was right in front of him.
@PN said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Get off it. The SC head tackle had no mitigation, where as Kolisi's was clearly a rugby collision. Initial impact went through SK's shoulders. This echo chamber needs some perspective.
Don't embarass yourself anymore than you already have
It's grainy but regardless of where his arms and shoulders are, SK hits Ardie head to face. No intent, not foul play, but that's a RC to me because of that impact
@nzzp said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@PN said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Get off it. The SC head tackle had no mitigation, where as Kolisi's was clearly a rugby collision. Initial impact went through SK's shoulders. This echo chamber needs some perspective.
Have another look at Kolisi - link below. Pay attention to Savea's head. He came charging in to a player dropping from a jump, and smokes him in the head.
There's as much mitigation as Cane in a dynamic tackle. For me, both yellow, or both red. Hell, week to week you'd like it reffed the same (I know, wishful thinking)
South Africa's captain Siya Kolisi was sent off after he made head-on-head contact with fill-in All Blacks captain Ardie Savea.
Both are cards, no doubt, but I know which tackle I would rather have been on the receiving end of. That said, I am in favour of a 20 min red.
Rugby World Cup news | New Zealand captain Sam Cane cops red card for high shot
New Zealand captain Sam Cane was sent off just short of half-time in the Rugby World Cup final for a high shot, which was upgraded to red.
@PN said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Both are cards, no doubt, but I know which tackle I would rather have been on the receiving end of.
If only officials listened to your criteria it would be so much simpler.
@canefan said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@PN said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Get off it. The SC head tackle had no mitigation, where as Kolisi's was clearly a rugby collision. Initial impact went through SK's shoulders. This echo chamber needs some perspective.
Don't embarass yourself anymore than you already have
It's grainy but regardless of where his arms and shoulders are, SK hits Ardie head to face. No intent, not foul play, but that's a RC to me because of that impact
I'm not embarrassed at all. I would rather cop a tackle to the body with simultaneous head to head contact, rather than a flying shoulder to the face. This is why the one was yellow and the other was red. If you cannot see that, you are blinded by your bias.
@PN so genuine question - what's the mitigation you see?
A bunch of people argued Kolisi was YC only, and plenty of mitigation. When I pulled that and saw it again, I really struggled to reach that conclusion. Looked red as shit to me, with no real mitigation
@nzzp said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@PN so genuine question - what's the mitigation you see?
A bunch of people argued Kolisi was YC only, and plenty of mitigation. When I pulled that and saw it again, I really struggled to reach that conclusion. Looked red as shit to me, with no real mitigation
As above.
@PN said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@nzzp said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@PN so genuine question - what's the mitigation you see?
A bunch of people argued Kolisi was YC only, and plenty of mitigation. When I pulled that and saw it again, I really struggled to reach that conclusion. Looked red as shit to me, with no real mitigation
As above.
so, the mitigation is your personal preference to be on the end of one over the other...? That's pretty comical pal.
They're both clear reds under the current laws. Kolisi comes flying into the line and recklessly makes significant head-on-head contact.
It's just a red mate, give it up.
@PN said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@canefan said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@PN said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Get off it. The SC head tackle had no mitigation, where as Kolisi's was clearly a rugby collision. Initial impact went through SK's shoulders. This echo chamber needs some perspective.
Don't embarass yourself anymore than you already have
It's grainy but regardless of where his arms and shoulders are, SK hits Ardie head to face. No intent, not foul play, but that's a RC to me because of that impact
I'm not embarrassed at all. I would rather cop a tackle to the body with simultaneous head to head contact, rather than a flying shoulder to the face. This is why the one was yellow and the other was red. If you cannot see that, you are blinded by your bias.
You aren't talking to a bunch of scrubs on FB. I see similar levels of danger, in slightly different situations. Portia Woodman got hit in a head to head tackle in the women's final and the English girl got a straight red. Is there a difference because Ardie didn't fall down and Portia did? Head to head contact is exactly that either way.
And even after all that we had chances to win and I've already said we made to many errors and didn't kick our goals
@PN said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@canefan said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
@PN said in RWC Final: All Blacks v Springboks:
Get off it. The SC head tackle had no mitigation, where as Kolisi's was clearly a rugby collision. Initial impact went through SK's shoulders. This echo chamber needs some perspective.
Don't embarass yourself anymore than you already have
It's grainy but regardless of where his arms and shoulders are, SK hits Ardie head to face. No intent, not foul play, but that's a RC to me because of that impact
I'm not embarrassed at all. I would rather cop a tackle to the body with simultaneous head to head contact, rather than a flying shoulder to the face. This is why the one was yellow and the other was red. If you cannot see that, you are blinded by your bias.
That looks like an absorbing shoulder by Cane! Keep posting, it is amusing me!